Is the RAFAC in a death spiral?

Adult Staff
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I’ve done some digging and apparently the “mandated training” in question is/was climactic injuries and FA. ACTO8 states FA training is mandated, and EFA must be completed within 6 months of joining. So obviously some are strictly enforcing this, whilst most are using judgment, unaware of this or ignoring it as it’s inconvenient to check for multi squadron events. TBH I can see both sides of doing this and would expect commanders to decide case by case, but if auditors are looking for this and chastising those who allow “untrained” cadets on an activity some commonality would be helpful

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This post’s title is unnecessarily emotive. It is also one of the first things that pops up on google when someone searches Rafac. I understand it was started when things were still struggling to come back from Covid, but it’s completely absurd that it’s publicly viewable and so visible. I’d suggest the mods do something to ensure it doesn’t pop up on google so easily, as it is likely one of the first things people find when they are thinking of joining the org.

Just my two cents. I don’t feel there is anything wrong discussing, but change the title to be more balanced, or change the SEO on it. Cheers.

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@Sellador - from the list below, what’s actually been resolved?

There is still a shortage of flying opportunities, there’s still an excessive admin burden for CFAVs (particularly those in uniform), CFAVs are still having to take responsibility for activities that could lead them at risk of prosecution, shooting & SOVs I can’t comment on personally but many others here can, numbers of volunteers in RAFAC is still declining despite them growing in the other cadet forces, leadership seems to have improved but still plenty feel not heard.

A small number of things may have improved but nothing is resolved. To come on here and essentially demand that changes are made on this forum to cover-up the issues impacting the core is highly inappropriate IMHO. Furthermore, senior personnel at HQAC and in 22 Grp have come onto these forums to engage with CFAVs and understand the feelings on the coal face - why would we want to hide the truth from them?

As a side note, this thread hadn’t been commented on for 2 months and had fallen off the main page of the forum meaning most visitors wouldn’t see it. When you comment on a thread, it places that thread back at the top of the site for all to see.

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We had another volunteer at our SCC unit who was previously volunteering with the RAFAC…

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fixed that for you.

while i can see the reason behind the message - to suggest it shouldn’t be public facing is covering the organisation is rose tinted glasses as if all is well and rosy and as if the pandemic never happened as everything has successfully bounced back.

the list offered by @WhiskeyNovember of what hasn’t been resolved is accurate - some of this is even pre-pandemic legacy.

while 99% of my life has returned to “normal” my ATC world is still very much in a state of “new-normal” with scars of the pandemic still showing through - while the Cadets joining today, and likely the last 12-18 months don’t know any different, the impact on the CFAV is still clear, if only because i see lower numbers, and lower attendance by those who remain - be that fewer Squadron evenings or less commitment towards weekends.
in my opinion the organisation is being propped up by a case of “the richer getting richer and the poorer getting poorer” - those who put in everything they could before continue to do, and more as those who did what they could, are now doing less - which causes as shortfall.

those who did, are doing more - those who did a little, are doing less.

I have contacts up and down the country thanks to attendance at National camps and the resulting Whatsapp groups and see it clearly - those with freetime/limited family commitments are doing far more than than before.
I am seeing younger CFAVs taking on senior roles, be that Squadron COs, or at Wing positions. while those late 30s and older, with families, or career pressures, are not as involved as before for a variety of reasons.

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It’s not though is it…
Links from Googling “rafac” in order…

Even on Page 2 the only ACC link points to “What is the RAFAC doing well? - Adult Staff” thread. And Page 3-5 don’t link to it either.

Given the nature First Page Dominance on search results, I’m wondering just how far a user has to go to actually find a link to this page…

But well done for dredging it back to the top of the Adult Staff list!

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The question, ‘Is the RAFAC in a death spiral?’ is still very very relevant and should be debated openly for the good of the organisation.

For someone - presumably senior in the organisation - to demand that it gets covered up or hidden away, highlights why we are having the problems with retention, (cadet and CFAV) and CFAV recruitment.

Congratulations on reopening the debate.

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@Sellador Suggestions?

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I’m running a Wing Shoot in a couple of weeks, the qualified range team has been drawn from the following:

My Wing = 3
RSOs (SW) = 2 (My Region)
LaSER = 3

Someone used to say to me that we have a SOFa problem, and it rings incredibly true, it’s always the Same Old Faces that turn up to weekend events, as a Wing we allegedly have over 200 active CFAVs, yet it always seems to be the same group of 30-50.

How do we get the other 75% + out and involved at weekends doing the fun activities, especially as so much of the PTS now relies on weekend activity?

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Just to add to what others have alrady said, it’s worth noting this thread has existed longer than you’ve been in the organisation. As you’ve been in less than two years, you might not realise quite how bad things have got compared to where we were 5/10/15 years ago.

Most of us have been involved for a long time and have seen this ‘death spiral’ of a decline over the years. You’ve only seen what’s changed since you’ve joined.

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Reduce the admin burden. Which is the solution to 99% of the organisations problems, but only ever gets talked about and never actioned!

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Agreed: a quick check of previous posts shows they were a CI 2 years ago (if all accurate) so unlikely to have seen much decline in that time. Over my 22 years it’s much more marked, and my predecessor, commissioned in the 1980s, said much the same (providing evidence, too). And in my context it’s pretty common for my parents to have fathers who were cadets back then who strongly agree.

There are lots of reasons - some of them good ones - why it can’t be like it was in 2003 or 1983. But it’s not.

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Up to a point, as long as by admin burden you also include risk appetite. Some of the decline is linked to the decline in the RAF - reduced opportunities - but a lot can be laid at the door of Haddon-Cave and the resulting effect on the risk appetites of senior officers. Each individual senior officer is not directly to blame - that’s not what this is about, they are trying to do their best but the system is against them.

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I mean, far be it for me to suggest that simply renaming a problem in order to make it less of a problem is one of the reasons why the ACO is in a death spiral…

@Sellador - have you considered a career at HQAC?

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Change is inevitable as is entropy.
Keeping anything from decline requires fuel. It requires effort to be input from somewhere.

For me, that requires investment, input to our volunteers. Without them the RAFAC goes. With a good staff team you don’t need to actively recruit cadets to a unit.

Where is the specialist training required to provide our bespoke syllabus? We get notified of changes and left to self-discover in SharePoint. And muddle through delivery where actual training would ensure a better deliverable product.

Where is the ongoing support and development? We ask people to give up their time, their home commitments in support of us, and we fundamentally strip away the mechanisms we have to help them do so whilst preventing goodwill at home being undermined (VA/Travel/Accreditation).

What went so wrong to result in a fundamental lack of succession planning and support to our adults? Why are we so poor at retaining people with the skills and knowledge we ought to value?

I find we instead exist in an organisation waiting to tell us off. No one wants to be an OC/SME/Camp Commandant for fear of being pounced upon and torn to shreds for a decision we made in our hobby. If something goes less well than it could, we await an interrogation.

As someone who has been all 3 regularly enough, and for long enough, you’d think I could rest safe in the knowledge that most of the time I can get it right.

However, subsequent to events I find an email, call or text can feel like someone poking, prodding and fundamentally questioning me when I do make a decision whilst holding these positions of responsibility.

Aviation as a whole fosters a no-blame culture.
A culture where personnel are encouraged to share best practices and to ensure we all learn from what we experience.

So why can’t we?

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It goes deeper than that. We let people sink or swim, and often sink. When I started it was very much about being left to figure things out with no or little guidance, being told off for doing things ‘wrong’ but then being expected to find out on my own how to do them right.

I was fortunate to find a few helpful people who could put me on the right track, or I’d have walked.

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This is so true. My parents and cadets basically handle our recruitment for us now. I’ve paused active recruitment because it doesn’t need to be a priority.

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Are we in a death spiral?

Had an intake of 30 +10 in 24/25
Just had an intake of 30+ Sep 25
No recruiting so all word of mouth - if they keep coming back happy we must be doing something right?

Unless they had parents who were cadets then they do not know any better about what it used to be like.

Now, as much as I would like to be out and about and doing lots of extra activities, She Who Must Be Obeyed has other ideas.
Therefore, over time, all the things I used to teach I am gradually losing the ability to (either quals needed for PTS levels or old quals degraded), as I do not have the weekend bandwidth to attend course to be ‘qualified’ to teach and assess what used to be within my standard remit. Radio, FC, and now MOI to name a few…
I understand the drive for standardisation, but take MOI. I have delivered this for RAFAC and professionally for 25+yrs but i have been told I can’t teach or assess until I have done a course to assess, done the MOI course as a student, then been assessed delivering an MOI course - an this for a qual that is only recognised within RAFAC - if it was an external recognised qual (YFA etc) then I could understand the drive. What about the things we do teach that we have no trg or assessment for - double standards?
Therefore, I do what I can with what I have and am lucky that my (small) staff team have got a few quals to enable us to do some things over classification trg.

As I have said before, the move to off Sqn trg for extra/higher activities goes against the grain of Social Mobility and provides for those with the ability to attend and disadvantages those that, through no fault of their own, are unable to, and are the ones that would probably gain the most form the opportunity.

So my conclusion:

  • Whilst numbers are ‘good’ the fundamental flaws will go unnoticed.
  • I bet numbers of CFAV delivering extra activities are dropping and it is the same faces doing everything - lose these and massive capability drop
  • Would love to see some stats showing where the badges go and what black holes we have - bet there are massive holes where opportunities are not available for reasons above
  • Make it easier to deliver more locally - we are not an Academy but I do recognise some standardisation is needed - how do the Scouts etc do it?

Rant off before I explode :slight_smile: - sure there is more but I need to get back to work for a living

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Dont forget the out of region support for SPO… :smile:

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None of which is policy, just a trainset mindset

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