and I’m not an extreme MAGA supporter, I just think it’s the lesser of two evils
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It’s interesting to hear the perspective from someone who is USA based particularly as the majority of the users on here are UK based so our view of American politics & culture is very much filtered through a media perception with our own cultural interpretations.
I would have classed Trump as an old school republican patrician with an ideology based on preserving the republic & the prestige of the business owners.
Kamala I would put into the traditional conservative box from a uk view possibly more of a peelite.
How is Kamala & trumped viewed objectively on your side of the pond? (or was it, like here, a bad change would always be better than no change)
The Orange One loved the blessings on the inauguration (a bit of fire & brimstone), yet criticised the Bishop that dared to stand up to him, as she suggested that mercy & consideration should be shown to LGBT & immigrants.
In only one day, this has (as expected) descended into very simple circumstances, it’s his way, or the highway; don’t you dare stand in my way or you will be bulldozed into the mud. All “yes” people in his legislative group & all the power to prevent the voices of those who might sensibly need to say “no.”
Will the Orange One move against book banning? Funny old thing, I doubt it very much!
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Mostly extremists. The liberals are all gay, and the conservitives, are mostly straight people. (with a few exceptions) And what really miffs me off is that they’re teaching about pride and LGBTQ+ but they don’t let us talk or teach about Christianity!
hmmm I don’t know, maybe against some of the pride books
Ok that sounds like a little bit of a generalisation but I don’t how polarised the local media portrayal is of the different factions. In the UK broadcast media are legally required to be (in general) balanced so the stereotypes tend to focus between left, right & monster raving looney tend to be more ideological or class base than personal identity.
I believe this varies from state to state?
A lot of philosophy & belief training do start with the bible stores & parables of religious education before learn about other faiths & how humans think.
If you exclude either completely you do create division rather than tolerance & it’s frustrating to the excluded - do have a look at the thread about inclusive ceremony of remembrance as that has been quite respectful to various different view points.
Worth reading with a good mug of tea 
It is a bit of a generalization but you know…
It varies a bit from state to state but it’s mostly no christianity in schools
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The pictorial definition of “reach”
So I’ve been umming and arring on how to respond to these. I think they need a response, but honestly not been sure how to word it.
From what you’ve said previously, you’re obviously a young person/young adult who lives in America. The vast majority of the rest of us responding here are from the UK. Those cultural differences are really important. But I do want to break down what you’ve said, as I’d say that some things you’ve said would be considered pretty extreme views in the UK.
I’d say from a UK POV this is considered a bit extreme. As of 2023 only 6% of Britons say it should not be legal. In the UK this is not a Left/Right issue. The only people I know who are anti-abortion are extremely religious. Seeing how polarising abortion rights are in America is pretty sad from an outside POV. The only places heavily banning it are those who think it should be banned for religious purposes.
This I find ridiculous, to be frank. “The liberals are all gay” sounds like the sort of nonsense that is spouted by rather insane right wing “influencers”. It’s nonsense. Most of the people voting left wing are not gay. That’s absurd. And to follow that on:
I don’t actually know if this is true, but, I’ll take it as you’ve said it. Teaching about gays trans etc is biology. Teaching about Christianity is fantasy. I think both should be taught, but one is about biological fact, the other is closer to history. But I also think you should teach about many religions and their history.
Teaching young people that it’s okay to be gay doesn’t make people gay. It allows people to feel comfortable in their own bodies and be who they are. Yet, America appears to have this polarising view that being gay is not biological, therefore shouldn’t be taught as it’s closer to ideological. Once that starts getting taught, be it in school or just parents down to child then it becomes defacto truth, even if it’s not real.
I don’t want to go into the biological detail of ‘being gay’, but I can assure you that teaching people that gay people exist is a good thing, not a bad thing. Again, talking about LBGTQ+ stuff is very much biology. Heath and social care, etc. Teaching Christianity is religion. The two are not comparable in this sense.
Again, why do these need banning? Teaching people minorities exist is not an issue. ‘The right’ in America loves to bang on about how bad Pride Month is as a concept, but then you realise how anti-gay anti-trans loads of people seem to be, and you realise why it exists.
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Okay, going by your logic, how’s this?
(Note, I think a single freeze frame does make things look worse, but just playing devils advocate on what Turbo said previously…)
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Abortion is abortion, it’s a medical procedure that some people choose to take. I’m pro choice purely because as a man I won’t ever have to make the choice. If a woman wants to make that decision it’s up to her and her alone in my opinion and for us men to support whatever decision they make.
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icl I’ve never made a flat outstretched palm when I’m throwing something.
oh get a grip
So far you’re “counter argument” has been deliberately misleading freeze frames and half-baked whataboutisms
It’s not a nazi-state, it’s sense
Do we need to recap his views on Trans-Rights (Including his daughters rights), Unions & Workers rights, and his allowance for hate-speech and misinformation on X
so no people aren’t going to #bekind
Musk should’ve been more kind to him lol
You can’t claim you’re being the victim of name calling and a fledgling “Nazi state” if this is the nonsense
Hitler is the most photographed and videod man doing that gesture so yeah sherlock, he’s the one being used to demonstrate
and the ADL are littered with controversies, Islamophobia, denying the Armenian genocide, Forgiving the crimes currently committed in Palestine, and is regarded by many other Jewish advocacy groups as “Unreliable”
seeing his tendency to be a (please delete if not appropriate) shitstirrer
very possible
Bro that is such a wild take
Not touching on the abortion issue just yet
“Teaching kindergarteners about pride” is utter bum fluff
and you have a definite separation of church and state, along with stuff in the bill of rights about freedom of religion, so no they don’t preach religion in classrooms, surely you should understand that??
For the love of god say sike
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I’m clearly not agreeing with turbo there
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Even before MAGA came along, I was sceptical about interacting with right-leaning Americans given how far to the right their views tended to be, and how non-self-aware of this right-leaning tendency they were.
Under MAGA they’ve gone full circle. The Republican Party used to sell itself on being the party of individual freedoms and liberty, but under MAGA they want to restrict and dictate people’s personal lives - and yet very, very few of the right are calling them out on the change.
The utter barrage of disinformation, particularly but not exclusively through social media, means young people who have not developed adequate critical thinking skills are now buying into authoritarianistic views that this particular cult is eviscerating. IMHO, this is creating a lost generation who, over the next 4 years, are very much going to enter the “find out” stage of FAFO.
For some of the younger generations of Americans I can somewhat understand how they’ve been so gullible as to fall for the marketing and messaging from the oligarchs behind MAGA, but there can be no forgiveness for the more mature generations who have done the same.
That so many of them think they even have a left-wing party in the US is indicative of how poor the political education is there. Both are right-wing, just one is less so than the other. That we now have an administration that is talking about putting children in cages, removing the security of critics (not even just opponents) of the administration and using the Armed Forces to control its internal population demonstrates just how far-right the Overton Window has become in Yankee Doodle Land.
The American people have made a decision that means those of us in the developed world should reconsider whether they are people we want to be associated with at all.
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I think this is pertinent- a little old & due to live news suffers in the same way as drop the dead donkey but an excellent program that’s worth watching.
@sgt_chopsticks you may not have ever watched this series as you might have been a bit young when it came out but if you get the chance please do as it’s a wonderful time capsule of the America at that time & adds contexts to the modern politics.
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That the exact wrong route to take. The majority of USA have looked & then they have chosen different. Kamala & the democrats were not credible & they took defeating trump for granted.
They didn’t try to understand why people placed their hope in trump & what made trump popular & so didn’t try to address or counteract those concerns.
Look at our inclusive remembrance service thread despite very strong & deeply held views it’s been a success (as a thread) because of the mutual respect.
Demonising & isolating & excluding doesn’t address the issue it just allows it to grow like the black mould in the bathroom. (Unless you opt for genocide & total extermination)
Engagement & addressing respectfully challenging in fact is what will do it in. When the BNP won enough council seats that the BBC included them on Question Time there were protests & calls for deplatforming of nick griffin. The BBC was an evil corporation for even permitting it.
The BBC on that day did their job, respecting democracy, being impartial but shining a light on the darkness so Nick Griffin & the BNP were ripped apart & lost credibility by the reality of what they where saying not the way others demonised them.
It is the hyperbole & hypocrisy that is polarising the debate & the failure to see people as more than the false idol they follow rather than the complex nuanced & contradictory people that humans are.
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Amendment I (1791)
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
So if Worship was included in a public school syllabus, that would be seen as the Government making that the state religion, seeing as you keep going on about wanting Christianity taught in classrooms I imagine you’re okay with that.
But I digress, there is nothing stopping parents sending kids to a Denominational school, but if you want state funded education, state funded rules
Article VI
"All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
There is a lot of waffle, but it makes it clear that public offices, and their holders, are answerable to the Laws and each other NOT a god, as is the case in our historic Legislature (along with the current House of Lords), and much of our Royal mythos
I can tell you’re young, maybe even my age. But please look into the credibility of the things you read/hear and research the important things about your Nation
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It’s important to recognise that, whatever their hopes and desires were in choosing Trump, they have actively and deliberately chosen to support an organisation that calls for the elimination of people I call friends, of basic human rights and of the world order that maintains relatively high levels of peace and stability.
Whilst I could agree with your argument the last time Trump was elected, this time around the people who voted for Trump knew what they were getting, knew the harm and damage it would cause many innocent people and screamed with enthusiasm that it’s what they wanted.
Ultimately, the Trump voters chose to isolate themselves from civilised society and that wish should be respected by people with any degree of standards and sanity.
Does this exclude the Democrats from any blame? Absolutely not - they should have changed and didn’t. But no-one went out and held a gun to someone’s head to force them to vote for a party that is becoming increasingly fascist and anti-democratic - those voters chose that approach of their own free will and should be willing to accept the consequences of their own personal actions without complaint.
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That’s a wide generalisation and we aren’t there.
It’s similar to boris Johnson vs Corbyn. Everyone knew that Johnson was a proven liar & narcissist but he got a majority because the alternative was hypocritical &
Trump is open & honest about the type of person he is. It’s not a very pleasant person & it’s slightly ga ga but it’s honest & it’s predictable.
Human nature is to pick predictability over the unknown - it’s a natural survival instinct particularly when people felt things were falling apart & they had no hope.
To paraphrase “Ethics in an empty sack is worth the sack”
We didn’t vote in this election so we can’t really understand why people voted the way the did.
Similar thing happened with brexit in that those who voted for it were often demonised as racist or bigots (despite the EU being predominantly white) - the reasons why people voted the way they did are complex and individual & you should not make sweeping assumptions generalising people as this is what leads to ostracism.
A lot of countries have flaws at the moment - I think the uk is doing okay politically although reform scares me as a UK version of the tea party.
The dominos are falling & WW3 may be on the way (I think round 2030) but the only way it will change is if we stop treating people as binary and we challenge & engage preventing them living in echo chambers & working on internal logic.
It will be interesting to see the mid terms.