The pictorial definition of “reach”
So I’ve been umming and arring on how to respond to these. I think they need a response, but honestly not been sure how to word it.
From what you’ve said previously, you’re obviously a young person/young adult who lives in America. The vast majority of the rest of us responding here are from the UK. Those cultural differences are really important. But I do want to break down what you’ve said, as I’d say that some things you’ve said would be considered pretty extreme views in the UK.
I’d say from a UK POV this is considered a bit extreme. As of 2023 only 6% of Britons say it should not be legal. In the UK this is not a Left/Right issue. The only people I know who are anti-abortion are extremely religious. Seeing how polarising abortion rights are in America is pretty sad from an outside POV. The only places heavily banning it are those who think it should be banned for religious purposes.
This I find ridiculous, to be frank. “The liberals are all gay” sounds like the sort of nonsense that is spouted by rather insane right wing “influencers”. It’s nonsense. Most of the people voting left wing are not gay. That’s absurd. And to follow that on:
I don’t actually know if this is true, but, I’ll take it as you’ve said it. Teaching about gays trans etc is biology. Teaching about Christianity is fantasy. I think both should be taught, but one is about biological fact, the other is closer to history. But I also think you should teach about many religions and their history.
Teaching young people that it’s okay to be gay doesn’t make people gay. It allows people to feel comfortable in their own bodies and be who they are. Yet, America appears to have this polarising view that being gay is not biological, therefore shouldn’t be taught as it’s closer to ideological. Once that starts getting taught, be it in school or just parents down to child then it becomes defacto truth, even if it’s not real.
I don’t want to go into the biological detail of ‘being gay’, but I can assure you that teaching people that gay people exist is a good thing, not a bad thing. Again, talking about LBGTQ+ stuff is very much biology. Heath and social care, etc. Teaching Christianity is religion. The two are not comparable in this sense.
Again, why do these need banning? Teaching people minorities exist is not an issue. ‘The right’ in America loves to bang on about how bad Pride Month is as a concept, but then you realise how anti-gay anti-trans loads of people seem to be, and you realise why it exists.
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Okay, going by your logic, how’s this?
(Note, I think a single freeze frame does make things look worse, but just playing devils advocate on what Turbo said previously…)
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Abortion is abortion, it’s a medical procedure that some people choose to take. I’m pro choice purely because as a man I won’t ever have to make the choice. If a woman wants to make that decision it’s up to her and her alone in my opinion and for us men to support whatever decision they make.
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icl I’ve never made a flat outstretched palm when I’m throwing something.
oh get a grip
So far you’re “counter argument” has been deliberately misleading freeze frames and half-baked whataboutisms
It’s not a nazi-state, it’s sense
Do we need to recap his views on Trans-Rights (Including his daughters rights), Unions & Workers rights, and his allowance for hate-speech and misinformation on X
so no people aren’t going to #bekind
Musk should’ve been more kind to him lol
You can’t claim you’re being the victim of name calling and a fledgling “Nazi state” if this is the nonsense
Hitler is the most photographed and videod man doing that gesture so yeah sherlock, he’s the one being used to demonstrate
and the ADL are littered with controversies, Islamophobia, denying the Armenian genocide, Forgiving the crimes currently committed in Palestine, and is regarded by many other Jewish advocacy groups as “Unreliable”
seeing his tendency to be a (please delete if not appropriate) shitstirrer
very possible
Bro that is such a wild take
Not touching on the abortion issue just yet
“Teaching kindergarteners about pride” is utter bum fluff
and you have a definite separation of church and state, along with stuff in the bill of rights about freedom of religion, so no they don’t preach religion in classrooms, surely you should understand that??
For the love of god say sike
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I’m clearly not agreeing with turbo there
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Even before MAGA came along, I was sceptical about interacting with right-leaning Americans given how far to the right their views tended to be, and how non-self-aware of this right-leaning tendency they were.
Under MAGA they’ve gone full circle. The Republican Party used to sell itself on being the party of individual freedoms and liberty, but under MAGA they want to restrict and dictate people’s personal lives - and yet very, very few of the right are calling them out on the change.
The utter barrage of disinformation, particularly but not exclusively through social media, means young people who have not developed adequate critical thinking skills are now buying into authoritarianistic views that this particular cult is eviscerating. IMHO, this is creating a lost generation who, over the next 4 years, are very much going to enter the “find out” stage of FAFO.
For some of the younger generations of Americans I can somewhat understand how they’ve been so gullible as to fall for the marketing and messaging from the oligarchs behind MAGA, but there can be no forgiveness for the more mature generations who have done the same.
That so many of them think they even have a left-wing party in the US is indicative of how poor the political education is there. Both are right-wing, just one is less so than the other. That we now have an administration that is talking about putting children in cages, removing the security of critics (not even just opponents) of the administration and using the Armed Forces to control its internal population demonstrates just how far-right the Overton Window has become in Yankee Doodle Land.
The American people have made a decision that means those of us in the developed world should reconsider whether they are people we want to be associated with at all.
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I think this is pertinent- a little old & due to live news suffers in the same way as drop the dead donkey but an excellent program that’s worth watching.
@sgt_chopsticks you may not have ever watched this series as you might have been a bit young when it came out but if you get the chance please do as it’s a wonderful time capsule of the America at that time & adds contexts to the modern politics.
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That the exact wrong route to take. The majority of USA have looked & then they have chosen different. Kamala & the democrats were not credible & they took defeating trump for granted.
They didn’t try to understand why people placed their hope in trump & what made trump popular & so didn’t try to address or counteract those concerns.
Look at our inclusive remembrance service thread despite very strong & deeply held views it’s been a success (as a thread) because of the mutual respect.
Demonising & isolating & excluding doesn’t address the issue it just allows it to grow like the black mould in the bathroom. (Unless you opt for genocide & total extermination)
Engagement & addressing respectfully challenging in fact is what will do it in. When the BNP won enough council seats that the BBC included them on Question Time there were protests & calls for deplatforming of nick griffin. The BBC was an evil corporation for even permitting it.
The BBC on that day did their job, respecting democracy, being impartial but shining a light on the darkness so Nick Griffin & the BNP were ripped apart & lost credibility by the reality of what they where saying not the way others demonised them.
It is the hyperbole & hypocrisy that is polarising the debate & the failure to see people as more than the false idol they follow rather than the complex nuanced & contradictory people that humans are.
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Amendment I (1791)
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
So if Worship was included in a public school syllabus, that would be seen as the Government making that the state religion, seeing as you keep going on about wanting Christianity taught in classrooms I imagine you’re okay with that.
But I digress, there is nothing stopping parents sending kids to a Denominational school, but if you want state funded education, state funded rules
Article VI
"All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
There is a lot of waffle, but it makes it clear that public offices, and their holders, are answerable to the Laws and each other NOT a god, as is the case in our historic Legislature (along with the current House of Lords), and much of our Royal mythos
I can tell you’re young, maybe even my age. But please look into the credibility of the things you read/hear and research the important things about your Nation
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It’s important to recognise that, whatever their hopes and desires were in choosing Trump, they have actively and deliberately chosen to support an organisation that calls for the elimination of people I call friends, of basic human rights and of the world order that maintains relatively high levels of peace and stability.
Whilst I could agree with your argument the last time Trump was elected, this time around the people who voted for Trump knew what they were getting, knew the harm and damage it would cause many innocent people and screamed with enthusiasm that it’s what they wanted.
Ultimately, the Trump voters chose to isolate themselves from civilised society and that wish should be respected by people with any degree of standards and sanity.
Does this exclude the Democrats from any blame? Absolutely not - they should have changed and didn’t. But no-one went out and held a gun to someone’s head to force them to vote for a party that is becoming increasingly fascist and anti-democratic - those voters chose that approach of their own free will and should be willing to accept the consequences of their own personal actions without complaint.
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That’s a wide generalisation and we aren’t there.
It’s similar to boris Johnson vs Corbyn. Everyone knew that Johnson was a proven liar & narcissist but he got a majority because the alternative was hypocritical &
Trump is open & honest about the type of person he is. It’s not a very pleasant person & it’s slightly ga ga but it’s honest & it’s predictable.
Human nature is to pick predictability over the unknown - it’s a natural survival instinct particularly when people felt things were falling apart & they had no hope.
To paraphrase “Ethics in an empty sack is worth the sack”
We didn’t vote in this election so we can’t really understand why people voted the way the did.
Similar thing happened with brexit in that those who voted for it were often demonised as racist or bigots (despite the EU being predominantly white) - the reasons why people voted the way they did are complex and individual & you should not make sweeping assumptions generalising people as this is what leads to ostracism.
A lot of countries have flaws at the moment - I think the uk is doing okay politically although reform scares me as a UK version of the tea party.
The dominos are falling & WW3 may be on the way (I think round 2030) but the only way it will change is if we stop treating people as binary and we challenge & engage preventing them living in echo chambers & working on internal logic.
It will be interesting to see the mid terms.
Okay, from my point of view its bad. In the state of California, a BLUE state, killing a pregnant woman is considered a double homicide, which is interesting if you think about it. I don’t think abortion is bad in cases of r#pe or if a woman’s life in in danger, BUT I do think it’s wrong in the way of “Oh I don’t want to be a mother”, “Oh no I wasn’t on birth control when I hooked up with this guy so I’m going to have an abortion”, “I wanna keep partying and having fun”, or “I had s#x with this guy and then we broke up”.
Okay man, first off, I’m not old enough to vote and second of all, I don’t isolate myself! wow man, that’s kinda hurtful WhiskeyNovember
This brings up something funny, as in school today I got in trouble for reading my Bible. They chatted with me about the separation with church and state, which I get, but why wouldn’t we consider the LGBTQ+ community to be a religion? But, everyone has different views so I get if you guys don’t agree with it.
Okay guys, I’m going to come out and say this, even though it seems like I’m a die-hard Trump supporter (possibly you guys may think that) I just want to say I’m not. I don’t support Trump for what he’s doing, but rather the fact that it’s the lesser of two evils. I would rather have him over Harris for a couple reasons (Which I won’t go into as this is a public forum and it may or may not have to do with a sensitive topic) But I also don’t support what he’s doing entirely. (if that makes sense sorry if it doesn’t it’s about 11 o’clock at night where I am so I’m pretty tired
Because it’s not, by any definition of the word religion, a religion. You can choose your religion, you can choose to have no religion, your sexuality isn’t something you can choose, it’s wired into you. (Which is something a lot of conservative religious figures don’t seem to get, they preach that being gay is a choice, if so, why don’t you choose to be gay for a day and see how that feels?)
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Religion is a personal belief that you have the freedom of choice over. Being gay isn’t something you can control or change, it’s physical.
This lack of basic understanding on that point is exactly why it needs to be taught and talked about in school.
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Because it’s not a faith or belief in a higher power, deity, or structure by which one must live their life in order to be “good”. It’s individuals being true to themselves and their own nature and not living in accordance with a belief system that has a mass following - there just so happens to be a large number of people who are naturally aligned with one of the LGBTQ+ categories (for want of a better phrase), but that’s not because someone preached that they should be. Nobody is born religious and nobody is indoctrinated into being LGBTQ+, some are born LGBTQ+ and many who are also consider themselves a follower of one of the major world religions.
Nobody is born religious
…in the same way that nobody is born racist, Republican or Democrat, transphobic or homophobic. These are all learned through social conditioning within our immediate circles and, in modern times, traditional and online media.
Take a look at what happened with RedNote. Whether it’s a suitable platform to be on or problematic in its own way, it’s the first time that hundreds of thousands of Amercans have been able to interact directly with Chinese people and have experienced first hand that they are just people through mostly wholesome interactions.
Well, how many of your views are based on things you’ve been told and heard, from which you formed your opinions and then only hold onto new information or views that reinforce your own? If you were to meet a group of people that you don’t agree with and interact with them as people and individuals and not from a distance as a demographic or topic being described, would you be able to make a different assessment? If “China = bad” has been shown to be “Chinese people = people” has been demonstrated, could the same not happen with changing a view of “LGBTQ+ = bad” to “LGBTQ+ people = people”. And should we not be interested and willing to learn about people?
I’m not religious but am in favour of teaching religion in schools, because teaching =/= preaching. Even in the US I don’t think this contravenes separation of church and state, especially if you teach multiple religions. In the same way, teaching black history in the US (though why stop there? Why not also Indian, Asian, European, Oceanic cultures. It’s important to have a broad understanding of multiple cultures to appreciate and understand cultural differences) and LGBTQ+ topics isn’t by default preaching and brainwashing - “this is a thing that happened…these are people who exist”. In the case of topics relating to race whether CRT in the form it took is the correct way is a different discussion, but how much was opinion on it shaped by what people were told about it through subjective opinion and not through their own experience and knowledge?
This isn’t the place to dwell on those topics and I think the important points have also been made by others, so to move on and bring it back to Trump, subjects such as those above are incredibly concerning for millions of Americans - and many parts of the rest of the world are worried about them too.
Politics in the US, and increasingly so in the UK, has become incredibly polarised and DT is an incredibly polarising person who seems to many to signal a shift even further in a particular direction, sowing even more division. Regardless of how you think the correct way to run the economy is, or the best tactic for managing immigration, should that come at the price of the rights, freedoms, liberties, and safety of huge swathes of a nation’s people? Or come with a bolt-on package of restricting the ability of schoolchildren to learn, experience, and understand people and cultures who are different from them?
Let’s all focus on concerns and hopes without getting into the nitty-gritty of debating the controversial stuff. e.g. we can comment that DT’s actions may be of concern to trans people without debating whether trans people should exist.
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What don’t you support and for what reason? Is there anything you do think is positive?
Further to my comments on RedNote above, “The American People” are still people and putting up our own (metaphorical) walls is counter-intuitive to the diversity and inclusivity we espouse. For starters, not all of them voted for DT and not all of those who did are raging extremists, zealots, and bigots. Some may have been misled on aspects they believe in or were naïve to others they don’t.
Closing ourselves off to them only allows the internal propagation of the extreme views we don’t agree with to accelerate. The rest of the world needs to provide examples of how a different way can be successful, how different groups of people and cultures should and can be respected and contribute positively.
In 1881 the Isle of Man allowed women to vote. Gradually this spread to other countries.
Perhaps a better example is that The Bismarck Model of healthcare launched in Germany in 1883 which grew and developed across multiple nations and iterations over decades, including our own in 1911. But the NHS was launched in 1948. If we can take an idea that started in Germany and not say “you’re some bad dudes, we want nothing to do with any of it” and reverse the progress that WE made after being enemies with them through two world wars, then we can continue to coexist, share ideas, learn, and debate with Americans in 2025 despite one election and 4 year term. It is not the right move to backtrack on our values and begin to exclude people.
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If that is true get you a good lawyer
uummmm
because they don’t worship a god, Theres no rituals, and there is no debate over wether or not gayness exists (it does)
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