Tate & Lyle rank slides



Looks like his predecessor was also commissioned at the same time as holding the role.


Doesn’t that say he was commissioned before becoming Academy Sergeant Major?


True, and then went on to be Army Sergeant Major. All very odd.


The Army Sergeant Major, and the new one, the Armed Forces Sergeant Major (or whatever he’s called) are LE officer’s filling newly created advisory/representative posts.

Glen Houghton was the first Army Sergeant Major before moving up to be the first SEAC, Gavin Patten is the current ASM. They both have Twitter feeds and fancy badges.

Academy Sergeant Major etc… are different posts, they are filled by WO1’s.


Dare I mention the topic?


It is known as a deferred commission, the army Sgt Major is selected from the cohort that year whom have been selected fir commission, they in affect wear the large army Sgt major arm badge and have Captain as a shadow rank, After Glenn Haughton finished in post he then agreed to move to the role is SEAC… in this Role he again wear very large badge, but is now technically the senior enlisted advisor across the 3 services (senior enlisted advisor to the Chiefs of staff)…follow him on twitter and you will see that he is on an Airfield one day on a Ship the next, he gets about, last week he was the inspecting officer at The lasted Royal Marines pass out


My question is, if he is a commissioned officer but fills the post of ASM and wears the big badge, does he get saluted?


No, his commission is a “shadow” rank, so he is treated as a Sgt Major


The ACF have recently introduced Deffered commissions, you may be aware the the ACF adult RSMI is a time limited appointment, a person is appointed on a 3 year post but may be extended yearly to a maximum of 6 years (including initial 3 year appointment) on completion of term the must revert to a post within the establishment, normally an SMI, or they can apply for a commission, if selected for commission at Westbury they are announced as a commissioned officer but if they wish can continue in post as RSMI until their term is completed, all time as an RSMI is counted in relation to length of service in relation to promotion as an officer and they may start there Officer training whilst RSMI


I don’t profess to know much about the Army and it’s intricate workings but rank aside, ‘shadow’ or not, surely its the fact he holds a Queens commission and has been gazetted as a holder of such which - technically - entitles him to be saluted?


Yeah, for the period of his appointment to these posts, the holders commission’s are treated as a private matter between them and the their salary and pension. Everyone else treats them as a WO1.


Sounds a bit like the RN promoting to Commodore, but then dropping back to Captain to be in charge of a ship.


Not convinced by that - all the LEs I know of started at OF-2 (although were often promoted further within a fairly short timeframe). Used to have an SI on my old unit for example who went MACr - Flt Lt - Sqn Ldr.


Yes the concept is unusual, but in essence his commissioned rank is in abeyance as a rank but still runs for pay, pension & time served, you are to treat by the rank he wears


You forgot Cadet Company Sergeant Major. :slight_smile:


Sorry I generalised with just Cadet Sgt Major


In Army all those commissioned from WO1 go direct to Captain, they then have LE course at Sandhurst and some other courses (academic etc) and a time period before they are eligible for selection to Major


Showing age with FCPO (Fleet Cheif Petty Officer) Royal Navy has not used that rank for close 35 to 40 years!!, and Army have not used QM commissions fir many years also, all WO1s commission as LE (Late Entry) commissions, but often hold a QMs job


IIRC the WO3 rank was used at platoon level and a CSM would still have been a WO2. WO3s were often used as platoon commanders when officers were in short supply.


Was it defininitely not the case then (say 25+ yrs ago) that the Army originally commissioned former WO1s as Majors?

I was sure that this was the case (rather than just as mere Captains).

Might this have been somehow a function of what regiment or corps they were in?

Equally, I can remember seeing graduation course photographs for old-school branch-commissioned RAF WOs/MAcrs, and I was sure they passed-out as Sqn Ldrs (ie the most-senior non-commisioned ranks became commissioned as the most-junior senior rank, rather than the most-senior junior rank). Perhaps my memory is failing me.