How many uniformed staff would leave if we killed the CFM arguments by just getting rid of it…? 
2 Likes
How long ago was that out of interest?
I think very few would leave as a result of not getting a CFM. Though I would expect that some might leave as a result of the gaul and apparent disregard for staff by an HQ who removed the eligibility that every other CFAV gets.
i.e. It wouldn’t be the lack of a CFM which would likely cause people to leave, but the associated disrespect for staff.
3 Likes
That’s a difficult question to answer.
I don’t think many would leave just because they are not getting a medal BUT
Some may well leave as it’s the final straw in what’s been a constant removal of things or changes to what they agreed to and seemingly endless take take take and demand
1 Like
fixed that for you
Yeah, fair point…
“The eligibility that every other CFAV (except CI’s of any of the cadet forces) get.”
Another issue:
So, let’s say that the ACO did want every CI to go into uniform. That’s potentially another ~3000 x 28 days pay voluntary renumeration that’s got to be funded from somewhere, when we all know the budgets are already pretty tight. Even if all CIs stayed as Sgts / Plt Offs, this comes to just over £5m per year.
What would the folks who are in favour of no CIs get rid of to fund this?
1 Like
You don’t think they’ve thought that far ahead, do you?
3 Likes
The alternative argument (which has already been vaguely mentioned) is that if the only reason people are volunteering is to wear the uniform with a bit of metal, are they really in the organisation for the right reasons? (when there are already 3000 CFAVs who volunteer knowing they won’t get it)
1 Like
Certainly if that were the only reason… But it isn’t going to be really, is it?
That’s where it would get interesting, as already happens in some regions you would have Wing & Region Staff limiting how many staff on an activity can claim pay. So you have 20 Cadets at your bag pack you only need 2 staff so only 2 of you can claim.
They would also need to seriously examine what the charts say you are allowed to have and stick to it unlike at the moment where you can have any numbers and mix of staff on a unit that you want. (To avoid having too many WO’s claiming at that pay grade etc)
I think the days of VA are numbered anyway, but I think they would certainly finish it off.
It not a case of problem volunteering solely to get it, it’s people having something taken away from them. No one joins the organisation for the home to duty, but taking it away could cause someone to leave.
2 Likes
Yeh, I realise I was being slightly flippant - but even so, if someone is that bothered by this that they cite it as a reason for leaving I’d still question if they were really considering the most important reasons for being here
I think this is a different matter. Perhaps because I’m a CI, I don’t think I should be out of pocket for stuff that I do so I do claim all possible HTD / 1771s - and this being taken away would have an impact on me. Getting a bit of metal every few years isn’t quite the same though, as far as I’m concerned.
1 Like
There are other, more suitable, ways of recognition rather than something that is just awarded by default. I would much rather have Wg Cdr / RC / etc / etc commendation than a medal - it shows that stuff I’ve done has been recognised
1 Like
I think that whatever the intellectual argument behind ditching the CFM, the optics of it for those on the recieving end of that policy would be pretty grim.
In an organisation with an already catastrophic morale problem, think that would be a brave policy - as Sir Humphrey would say…
2 Likes
I don’t know…The whole “in it for the right/wrong reasons” line has always niggled me.
I’ve never been overly fussed on what people’s reasons are (beyond knowing how we can support them), but simply whether they are helping us to deliver the aim.
Personally I’ve never been one of those “Oh, I’m only here for the cadets…” types, and I must confess that when someone says that I become suspicious.
I’m here because I enjoy it. The moment I stop enjoying it and become ineffective it’s time for me to leave.
If someone is here because they want to look “gucci” in a uniform, or for any other reason, then, whilst I might think of them as a bit of a tit, I don’t care so long as they are good at their job and the cadets benefit at the end of it.
Equally if someone is not pulling their weight then I’m annoyed because of that fact, and whether it’s because they joined for a medal, or for an ID card, or whatever is immaterial.
8 Likes
that’s why I said the most important reasons rather than specifically saying just for the cadets. There is a spectrum of reasons, but getting a medal just for turning up should barely be on it
Yeah, I understand, and I agree. “To get a medal” is not an important reason to be here, and it would ring alarm bells with me.
Though if someone’s sole motivation to be here was just to get a medal but they were doing a good job whilst they are… I’d not be overly fussed.
Though I’d probably not court their acquaintance. 
2 Likes
2FTS.
3 Likes
I think you’ll find most people here are not saying that they volunteer to receive a CFM, but rather that they find it unfair that CIs are not allowed to use any of their time accrued as staff towards eligibility.
My friend applied for his CFM in 2008 IIRC, but was knocked back.
He received it in 2014 ish. Then left the organisation (unconnected to medals) shortly after.
Yes, thank you for saying this.
As a CI of many years and a recent commission, it does seem like (online at least) I am some kind of Walt!
Why did I go into uniform, I could do everything as a CI?
Why would you want a CFM (the only medal I’ll ever be able to pin on my uniform as I have no military service!) - I must be a massive Walt!
CI’s always moan they are treated as second class, in my time as a CI I never felt like this, mainly because the squadron, sector and majority of wing staff are decent human beings.
Now I’m in a blue suit do I do anything differently? No, other than being a little more formal with cadets. But there are lots of reasons, both for cadets and for MY OWN satisfaction (shock horror!) that I wanted to go into uniform.
2 Likes
I realise that 
but there was a comment made earlier about people who are uniformed so that they can get a medal.
There are several distinct, but related, points made about CFMs
1 Like