You don’t get 18 year old Corporals anymore than you get 20 year old Sergeants.
Our SNCO’s have very clearly different rankslides indicating who akd what they are.
This is all a solution looking for a problem.
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Granted, but you do get 18 year olds in the JR mess, so they’d look less out of place/walt-y than 20 year old SNCOs.
Having a top heavy NCO cadre in my view is a problem, in the same way as it would be if the officer cadre all got Sqn Ldr on time served and could be promoted to Gp Capt on merit (excepting Gp Capt Pass ofc).
I take your point, but the rank structure should be vaguely reminiscent of the parent service. Having officers only reach Fg Off (without taking on OC or other roles), implying they have only a couple years experience, whilst granting Sgt fresh out the door to the NCOs feels incompatible to me.
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I will add though, obviously this is all an academic exercise and nothing is likely to change in the foreseeable. But if something was to change, I’d argue the focus should be on the role structure at sector and above rather than rank itself.
As adult staff we rely more on the role structure than the rank structure, at least away from the cadets. Of the 3 wings I’ve spent time in, 2 have felt horrendously paralysed structurally. That won’t be fixed by giving people new tapes, it needs a broader minded structural review.
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The current NCO structure isn’t top heavy (it’s certainly less too heavy than the Commissioned structure) , it’s a hierarchy and we have more of our bottom rank NCO than any other and less of our top NCO rank than any other. It’s perfectly balanced. Most Squadrons have Sergeants, some have FS and a handful have WO’s
Maybe and only because no one can actually get on one, but ACP20 still upholds this for FS and WO (CCF(RAF)).
That doesn’t negate the historical and ongoing inequity of the system overall; it’s still skewed towards easier, more rapid promotion as an officer regardless of experience and skill. Fg Off is “time-served” after 2 years, consideration for accelerated promotion upon taking command applies to both but is still skewed in favour of officers. Except in the unlikely event a Sgt is promoted 2 steps upon taking a unit, they might get their crown but will then still have to jump through the hoops and potentially serve another 4 before T&Ls come their way.
Heck, I could have continued my little hypothetical scenario to Sqn Ldr in only another 6 months, while the NCO still has another 4 years before eligibility for WO. It was inaccurate anyway, because the Flt Lt could have already been so for 2 years by the time the Sgt was eligible for their crown.
Accelerated, role-based rank (coupled with rank based VA) for Officers but not equally applied to NCOs is a farce.
Time served promotions for officers, but a shopping list of “must-have” and “preferably has” plus interviews for NCOs is completely imbalanced.
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Just gonna drop this suggestion/thread in here…
Obviously adjust titles to AS2/AS1 rather than LAC/SAC…
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Non-NCO’s can’t be RCO’s or DI’s not sure if they can Skill at Arms Instructors?
I think shooting was just an example. The idea for aged out cadets or new joiners to get a flavour of both streams as AS2/1 RAFAC is fairly admirable.
I doubt many people find themselves as RCO’s in the space of a year from going into uniform. From the looks of this suggestion, after AS1 you’d have the option to go for Cpl or apply to commission as Plt Off. I presume exceptions would apply as ever for ex-regs, or potentially skipping AS2 for ex-cadets.
But ultimately AS2/1 would effectively be the “apprentice CFAV” that staff cadets should have been, and for which CI is sometimes used by new joiners. It would also act similarly to the PI suggestions.
Pretty sure they can be Skillies, seen at least one out in the wild, but could be an exception potentially.
My existing concerns with the PI role, even if reformulated as AS2/1, remain though.
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In my first 6 months as a CFAV (CI) I had completed SAAI and SA(SR)07 courses. This is an ex cadet problem rather than for an off the street starter.
4.5 years later I then went into uniform (local delays not choice) with a lower entry rank I would then have been unable to exercise those qualifications.
That said the Min Rank requirement has since changed to CFAV I think so no longer LCpl or equivalent.
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Back when I was a cadet our CWO was an RCO, so when he went into uniform as a Plt Off I presume he was still qualified.
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How does that sit with needing SC though? I presume this is a bygone era thing, not a present day occurrence. As I understand it staff cadets with clearances (potentially through civilian work etc) can’t use them in/for cadets until they’re 20.
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You can’t do it as a Cadet anymore.
However if you are a shooter no reason you can’t do your RCO as soon as you turn 20.
I remember completing a security questionnaire as a cadet, but can’t recall if I ever held SC (as a cadet) or why I would’ve needed to.
Would it be for CTC ?
No, but thinking about it I stayed on between my 18th birthday and leaving for uni, so it might’ve been for BPSS (or whatever it used to be called: BCVR?)
Do Cadet NCO’s not already give that perspective?
Cadets are a lot more likely to meet a Cdt NCO they don’t know than an unfamiliar CFAV. So they’re already used to looking at shoulders and Chests for Rank slides.
Plus Having an overlap in Ranks between CFAV and Cadet SNCOs is just begging for confusion to ensue
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This. It just feels very messy that you have a duplicate rank system running alongside the cadet one.
Cadet flight sergeant answers to a sergeant.
Why bother with all that nuance?
it gets really messy on my Sqn, 2 most senior cadets are Sergeants, only CFAV NCO? Sgt, SI? Sgt as well
There’s already an overlap from sgt to WO. Not to mention that while we cadets are using RAF ranks then there will be an ‘overlap’ with regular and reserve forces.
the Cadet NCO Structure lets Cadets get a grasp for the Structure of the RAF. In a situation where you’ve got a 15 year old Cadet Sgt and a 20 something corporal, your seniority and structure is pretty clear
However put a 19 year old Warrant Officer and a 20 year old Sgt next to one another and the waters are a bit murky