The half cadet /half staff thing was never really going to work although I can see why they tried.
Cpl may be a good idea and I’m not sure that the parent service will mind in principle (and may prefer an 18 year old Cpl than a 20 year old Sgt) but where will they be accommodated on camps?
There is already precedent in the RAFAC for 18 year old staff as CCF allow you to be commissioned at 18, they also have no age limit for CWO so ATC wouldn’t lose that.
Personally I think if we decide to end ATC service at 18 then we should just follow the same route as the ACF (whatever that is)for staff to create some consistency across the board
That was my first thought. But, on reflection, is the accommodation on camp that big a drama??? How many staff actually go on camp these days? With fewer RAF stations about, plus fewer places, we see more things happening on DTE with mixed messing. Even when you get on a real RAF station, accommodation used by camp staff recently had included transit, a house or a local B&B. I don’t think the accommodation argument is really one to get too hung up on.
As for the “but what will the RAF think”? Meh. There’s a saying about opinions and what they are like!
Just a shame I am not allowed to take part in the actual survey, not being a CO, it must mean that my near 30 years of adult staff experience is not considered worthy. Sounds about right for the current ACO!
maybe we need to take a step back and look at the entire uniformed staff process.
we all know staff who did the minimum to get into uniform and it turns out that they are total and only interested in the uniform.
Using Gunners idea instead of age groups maybe stages, stage 1 can commence at 18 yo.
Stage 1 LAC (RAFAC)
Stage 2 SAC (RAFAC)
Stage 3 either NCO or commission
Stage 1 and 2 should take a year or more dependant on commitment and the person should be learning about being staff, get some AT/Shooting qualifications and get used to being a staff member taking “supervised” responsibility. Finally they are assed and maybe helped into the right branch (SNCO/ Commission). hopefully by the end of the 2 stages, the staff that are left are willing to take responsibility and be a part of the organisation rather than a wannabe RAF officer who likes to ponce about!
Accommodation at RAF stations could be an issue as there isn’t any sufficient space for Cadets, so during this training period they don’t go to main blue camps.
The other issue I would see is VA, would this be the start of HQAC’s master plan of everyone gets a set allowance per day regardless of rank and responsibility or do they introduce a new VA grade but will that take money away from where its needed??
In my previous life i was an officer in the ACF and saw exactly what 18 year old staff were like. As a current OC i will be voting against changes down to 18.
What i saw was a good number of ex cadets coming through as staff in the ACF not having the maturity to be left alone to run activities. Most of the 15/16/17 year old cadets were and still are there mates who for quite a few they were still in the same school. Although there is only 2 years between 18 & 20 it does seem a world away in maturity level for the majority of staff i have come across. At least when our cadets reach 20, most of there friends are in the same age group which is 18/19 and most have gone off to uni or work.
Sure there was a number of excellent staff that came through the system at 18 but in my eyes they were the minority.
In terms of training, the ACF are way ahead of us and in theory an 18 year old cadet should be getting 18 months of training as a PI before they are qualified instructors. In reality it doesn’t work that way and the lack of trained staff see some go through in 2-3 months (and one went through in 2 weeks, he lasted 4 months before leaving after that).
If used correctly, 18+ cadets can be a huge asset.
We need to nurture and develop these individuals. Not just put them into staff roles because they are 18.
They should be trained to take on the responsibilities of command and control early, so they can make an informed decision should they be offered command. Not just take it because they want the kudos or because there’s no-one else.
How many 18 year olds have their careers and family lives planned out and ready for the demands of this hobby. At that age I was forming a career, but not settled with a partner or family.
Having been in the organisation a few years, I have seen many young staff being pushed into command roles and not been ready for it. Squadrons suffer.
It may not be the case across the board, just my feelings.
Surely there is a potential move to have all cadet organisations limiting cadet service to age 18?
I would suggest it’s going to happen, despite a survey and would certainly fit in with the ongoing cadet expansion programme to open more schools units?
Personally I feel the ATC offers a great deal to young people between 18 and 20 where they still have the freedom of being a cadet without the burden that being a CFAV brings on occasions?
I’d agree with the last couple of posts - our 18+ cadets are a vital part of the Sqn, they act (broadly) as a training support group more than as leaders _per see - they’ll help with instruction and practice, help with logistics for activities and are almost always the majority of our advance and rear parties when we go away. They will man checkpoints or wandering support on hillwalks/DofE, and act as enemy or observers on FT exercises.
Whether they need to be cadets is another matter - the Guide Association for example has a category of staff called ‘occasional helper’, someone with an interest and skills the SA needs, but who has neither the time or inclination to be a more involved member of staff - but they do need to be kept on board.
Call them what you like, but civilians, 18-20(or older perhaps?), ex-cadets with DBS, MoI and CO’s sign-off. Then full CI or Uniform at 20.
If this happens, ACPS/ ACPNS will stop on the Tutor. At present the noise vibration unit will not accept exposure to noise/vibration on scholarships to under 18 year olds. They have to be 18 to be fitted with CEPs to comply with the risk assessment.
I’m not an ATC Sqn OC so could somebody out there raise this as a concern as I’m guessing nobody at HQ RAFAC has thought of this impact?
