Treating them as staff at the sqn is one thing, but it’s outside the sqn that the problems begin. On a sqn with the people they’ve grown up they get treated one way go to somewhere else and yes they are stsff cadets but due to rank etc may not be treated on an equal footing.
A staff cadet I had a few years ago (a CI of their choosing due to how I work) he went to camp. He was the first one I had that had gone on an annual camp. I asked how it went and he said one moment I was in charge and responsible for cadets or activity like a member of staff and the next time it’s like I was just a cadet. I’d heard this before from other staff cadets. Another of our staff cadets said how they were treated depended on the sqn they were from in terms of staff running the camp.
I have to admit I would be really concerned if we have cadets who are that attached to a uniform at 19 (which becomes 17 if they became uniformed staff at 18) that it’s the be all and end all of their existence and meaning in the ATC. What the hell are we people saying to them in the intervening years.to make them think like this? Mind you the BS rhetoric of high flying cadets since 2003 doesn’t help, it’s irony that once they’ve been lured, ensnared and digested like a fly getting caught on the promise of something nice on a venus fly trap catching a fly, the platitudes stop they just become an insignificant cog. In other situations this could be called grooming.
They’ve been playing dress up for say 7 (5 in a new set up) years at most and then continue for the next potentially 40+ years.
Back in the day when Staff Cadet IMO meant something I don’t ever recall similar sentiments when I went to camps etc or pressure from staff to even become staff. I think what happens now in is these cadets get their egos pumped and massaged by unscrupulous staff who are scared of losing them. Do people gloss over the CI role failing to highlight the positives and only speak about uniform staff?
Gotta back Teflon on this. At wing level staff cadets are only staff when it’s useful.
I’ve said it before. If you treat them as adults for one aspect, you need to treat them as such entirely. That means the downsides (supervising the little ones) and upsides (a pint at the end of the day.)
One thing I’ve never understood about cadets and drinking; 18+ they need wing commanders permission to join a staff drinks… why? They are legally able to a drink… how totally ridiculous that a wing commander should have to approve this “on camp”. Rubbish.
They are now an adult.
If you don’t want to accept that then bin 18+ cadets.
If you don’t want to bump into 18+ cadets in the bar, don’t approve them to stay on!
Its curious that over-18 cadets can use their time between 18-20yrs as time accrued towards the CFM, but RAFAC refuse to acknowledge them as full staff members.
My personal opinion is to end cadet service at 18, create a PI rank\role for the 2yrs between 18-20 then they ‘stream’ into CI, SNCO or commission. Those 2yrs could be spent preparing for their chosen stream whilst gaining experience as a staff member, obtaining the required qualifications and accepting responsibility for cadets the same as other members of staff.
It’s such a logical and sensible idea… I cannot fathom why they didn’t want to do it.
That is absolutely not the view of HQAC in the having a beer situation, I can assure you of that. When it comes to this, they ignore the distinction between ‘adult cadet’ and simply ‘cadet’ which serves so well elsewhere, such as leading people on AT, serving as O18 cover etc etc.
That’s sounds way too much like a democracy.
At least you’re still allowed to have a drink as a staff member! That’s been ‘banned’ where I’m from for about at least a year now.
I’d be asking to see the official policy that dictates that
I know what the official policy is; ACP 20 PI 114 states that CFAV are not to consume alcohol whist in uniform, on a designated duty or whilst in the presence of or responsible for cadets. Our Wing Co has decided that the definition of ‘responsible for cadets’ means that if your on a camp/training weekend/whatever and there are cadets there, (even if you’re on a staff only course but there’s another cadet course running that has nothing to do with you, with there own staff cover!) Then you can’t have a sip of alcohol.
I am aware of 2 people being disciplined for having 1 drink each in the evening after the cadets had gone to bed on a weekend course, and there were duty staff covering the ratios. One of them subsequently left the organisation.
It’s quite frankly rediculous.
Wg Cdr Fun Sponge RAFAC MoM TiT ILM(AO)
Surely you should be leading by example, showing those staff cadets that have never touched alcohol just how bad it is 
I know this is a jokey-comment, but I do agree with the no drinking in front of cadets, including staff cadets. Not drinking in front of U18 is obvious, but I still consider drinking in front of or with O18 cadets to be inappropriate, in the same way it’d be inappropriate to go to the pub with your teacher if you’re at 6th form.
But yeah, our wing is odd. Can’t even have a beer in the bar when I’m on a staff training course because another wing has a course with cadets at the same place, yet their staff are allowed to… It’s all kinds of stupid.
Drinking in front of U18 cadets is allowed though (in appropriate circumstances)… Dawn posted a video with a glass of wine last week(!)
At very limited appropriate circumstances, yes. This is basically just limited to dinners I guess.
Yeah. To be honest, personally I wouldn’t be that up for drinking on a camp (as is the often given scenario) anyway. More often than not you’re only going to have a few staff cadets on a blues camp and most staff cadets will be friends with some 16/17 year olds too who they’ll want to socialise with.
When I was a O18 Cadet it was routine practice to have a beer on the final night of a camp…but that was nearly 12 years ago
Same.
On the topic of staff drinking at camps… Those can be pretty intense - a little wind down is deserved.
As for staff cadets on camps - again we’re often asking more of them than usual and it can be a hectic and stressful time for them…
I await the “you don’t need to drink to relax” or “alcohol shouldn’t be needed” and “we shouldn’t encourage use of alcohol” comments from some quarters, but if that’s how people relax then as long as it’s reasonable what’s the problem? Others might choose a comfort salad and a late night run (or run-in with with MPGS, perhaps) which is also fine.
I do get this approach but I guess depends how you treat your O18s.
Much like pEp we treat ours as Staff. They happen to look like a cadet rather than staff in terms of their uniform but in all other manners are staff and part of the Staff team.
As such at our unit at least there isn’t the RAFAC version of 6th former:teacher relationship
Ours is staff cadet = staff relationship
When I was a cadet we would get a “late pass” on the Friday and advised by the staff as to a suitable hostelry near the station. Instructions were clear; don’t get drunk and be back for lights out. When I was at Gatow similar advice, plus told where to avoid in downtown Berlin and be back by 0100, due to needing to use buses and trams. This late pass system continued until the mid 00s and ended not because of some moral imperative, but just that there weren’t the numbers of 18+ at camp, not much fun drinking alone in a pub. So they’d be invited to join staff at a pub and be purchased a pint or two.
I don’t know why HQAC and I feel the broader RAF, hasn’t ever recognised that we have cadets over 18 who have full adult responsibility, except in the ATC they are treated like minors. The cadet can’t drink alcohol existed when I was a cadet, but was broadly ignored.