Should staff cadets be classed as CFAVs?

Adult Staff The Staff Mess
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Staff cadets go through DBS, BPSS, AVIP and all the other mandatory training that CIs do and can run activities (not parade nights or overnight) without other adult staff members being present. Despite all this, they are often still treated the same as 12 year old cadets and often forgot about when documentation is written. Should we classify staff cadets as CFAVs in an attempt to remove this issue?

To clarify, I mean should they be classed as CFAVs in its current form. Not intending to start yet another bin the staff cadet debate :slight_smile:

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This has been debated many a time on this forum, but my stance is that staff cadets should be binned off completely in favour of Cpl(RAFAC) or even SAC(RAFAC)

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Indeed it has, I’ve clarified my question slightly.

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Hmm well I think they can’t be cadets and CFAV at the same time, so how could you have a Staff Cadet and still call them a CFAV? I think to be a CFAV they need to be either an officer or an OR(RAFAC)

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At present they are CFAVs in all but name, though. Your argument could quite easily be applied to the oxymoron Staff Cadet. Also, interestingly, a brief look at JSP814 says ATC CFAVs have a minimum age of 18 (but normally 20).

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Personally I feel that we should not be charging Subs to staff cadets, and we should be treating them as adults (because surprise, surprise, they are.)

That’s not to say that we should get rid of staff cadets and move to a Cpl(RAFAC) or whatever because that argument has been had and will continue to be had. However Staff Cadets are adults, they are choosing to stay in the Air Cadets because they want to, and then deliver a huge amount towards the Cadet Experience while still benefiting from the cadet experience themselves.

Treat them as junior staff (because that’s what they are).

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I would love for us to define that Cadet Force Adult Volunteers are CFC Officers, SNCOs, CIs, SIs, Padres, Registered CivCom and Staff Cadets.

Mainly because Cadet Training Ranges specifies that the Ammo Orderly & First Aider must be CFAV. So we can’t allocate counting bullets to a staff cadet, but we could if they turn 20 with no further additional training.

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This was the proposed plan but RAF Messes had a huge issue with it an put up some barriers when it was suggested by the RAFAC

And some noise from others.

I was a fan of this plan also but itll never happen

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Also some sqns are on raf bases which could cause problems with secuirty

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One thing I noticed while (briefly) looking into this is there is no universal definition of CFAV, Adult Staff, Staff etc anywhere. Every document uses it differently (notably ACP4) and doesn’t always define it.

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ACP20 PI103
All potential adult supervisory volunteer staff (Officers, WOs/SNCOs(ATC), CIs/CGIs and honorary chaplains (collectively known as Cadet Force Adult Volunteers (CFAVs)

Seems to be the best definition.

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But staff cadets fall into “adult supervisory volunteer staff”, it’s crazy

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well, not really.
Staff Cadets certainly fall in to the “adult supervisory responsible persons” but not “volunteer staff” since you pay a membership subscription.

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But staff cadets voluntarily take on staff duties iaw the staff cadet agreement.

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yep, that is true, but Staff Cadets are also Cadets rather than Staff. it’s such a weird position.

I can’t understand the rational behind having 18+ cadets rather than just 18+ cfav. No other youth organisation (I know the acf are looking to go back to having 18+ cadets) allows a young person to stay on as a “youth member” after they turn 18.

The only similar scenario that I can think of is Network in Scouting which is intended for those aged 18 - 25 who want to be involved in scouting, but don’t want to be a leader, and network is kept as a separate unit to Explorers.

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Last I heard the ACF have it/are trialling it a substantial number of areas. I can see the reasoning but there could be a lot done to clear up the grey areas.

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Acf are rolling out increased cadet age to 20 to bring in align with us

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I make it no secret that I think the Staff Cadet situation is an utter farce, and one which the Cadets themselves were grossly mislead into voting for. I firmly believe that we’d be FAR better off with 18 year old probationary CFAVs with a direct route from cadet to uniformed service.

I’ve seen and experienced it working and it leaves our system looking like the absolute joke that it is… What the logic behind our half-way house approach was is anyone’s guess. Why the ACF are trialing our broken system is an even bigger mystery.

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I have a fun call to make in 6 months for a 17 year old cadet who is signed up for DofE and can’t complete an exped with us as the season doesn’t open before they are 18… but they don’t add value would have normally got the chop at 18

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I’ve always looked at it slightly differently. If the cadet can still gain something from the organisation then I’ll quite happily create a reason to keep them.

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