Ok. I’m very keen we don’t go on a witch hunt, especially as we have a useful AcoCTT account on here which is doing great things for answering questions.
We did decide that we aren’t going to accept people posting photos with the intent to just slate them. Yes they’re in the public domain, and in my opinion not good PR to show members of staff with alcohol (regardless of whether theyre on or off duty).
In that respect, this thread should be for continued discussion of green embroidered rank slides. No further discussion of haircuts, beer or anything else will be tolerated and will be removed.
Perhaps it might also be worth reading some of the student comments to see what they actually get up to when they’re fulfilling their role, rather than fussing over what they’re doing off duty.
Once again, outrage over a piece of coloured cloth - is it really THAT important in the grand scheme of things? Will the ACO close down overnight because personnel wear MTP rank slides? Will our cadets, members of the public and your average airman give a flying toss what colour these slides are?
No, so why do people get all bent out of shape over them?
The ACOCTT do a very good job in advancing shooting-related qualifications within the Corps but some on here need to remember that they aren’t robots - they’re human beings who work long hours and who deserve a bit of slack time. I would assume by a previous post that they are busy conducting an M Qual course. As someone who holds the M Qual I can tell you that it is far more tiring for the staff than for the students (and for us it was DAMN tiring).
Notice, despite their dress, they are still working, probably long after the students have had their ‘down time’ and gone to bed.
However, if that’s the attitude to take, then why bother having rules at all? How do we determine what rules we can simply ignore because “the world won’t end if we don’t abide by it”, surely there has to be somewhere we draw the line?
Some rules are very important within the Corps and should be enforced, others are less important.
Rules surrounding each member of staff holding a valid DBS (and where applicable for those involved with wpns, CTC) are very important. The colour of rank slides really isn’t.
On the Sqn and in the public eye, yes, rank slides should be of the correct colour and pattern. During Fieldcraft and range-related activities, does it really matter what they are?
you think that, and i think that - the problem however is that HQAC don’t think that for people other than themselves. if 123 (Bogchester) Sqn had released feildcraft photo’s showing their people wearing entirely appropriate MTP/DPM rank slides some slope-faced window-licker from HQAC would be crawling all over the OC and WWO by the monday afternoon.
the colour of rankslides to be worn on a wet hillside in the middle of nowhere could never be a serious bone of contention for anyone with IQ above room temperature or any integrity whatsoever - HQAC’s rampant, breathtaking hypocracy however…
Like I said, I don’t mind what rank slides I’m allowed to wear,
But I follow the rules, and if people take it upon themselves to enforce some rules and not others, it seems pointless having them, and they become more like guidelines instead of rules. People are quick enough to moan about grey areas normally, but here we have a rule which has been made very clear, which people are choosing to ignore because they feel like it.
Don’t get me wrong Matt, I see no reason why we shouldn’t wear them. I see no reason why cadets shouldn’t do a lot of things, not being able to use DP’s on fieldcraft for example baffles me. But I (like you) stick to the rules,I teach the cadets that rules need to be stuck to, so need to model that myself, the same as all ATC staff.
I don’t agree. I teach my cadets the rules and how to understand what the rules represent. If they can’t understand them they should then either challenge them or abide by them without wasting time worrying about the triviality (because life’s too short). How can you teach them to lead otherwise? It is a worrying picture if people follow every detail without question, as history has shown us that on countless occasions. Yes, there are rules which should be followed but our aim isn’t to train an army that must conform, it’s only a rank slide FFS! It ruins creativity and personality and the cadet experience is being destroyed by this. Unfortunately, we are also hindered by members who would rather spend their time hiding behind a computer screen, publicly slating other adult volunteers on forums, rather than focusing on the big picture of developing good citizenship in the cadets.
I like MTP rank slides but it baffles me that people care.
you do actually, you just get to deal with the consequences as well.
how many of us obey the speed limit on every single occasion? how many of us always tell the absolute, full truth about every facet of our careers in every interview?
we all break rules, and most people do so quite regularly without getting caught - if I’d got three points for every time I’d touched 80mph on the motorway none of my decendents for a thousand generations would get a licence - we do so because there’s a ‘pro’ and a ‘con’, and there’s a risk to be calculated about the chance of getting caught, the severity of the punishment and the advantage that ignoring the rule gives us. its part of being an adult, and understanding how to make those decisions is part of becoming an adult.
I don’t care about rank slides - in fact wearing an MTP rank slide not only looks better, but its more practical - all I care about is HQAC’s not unprecedented ‘do as I say, not as I do’ attitude.
the episode is actually a decent learning tool for cadets - if the person making the rule can’t really justify it logically, and flouts it when they think no one is looking, then that should be an indicator not only of their wit, but their worth.
I’m with Angus on this, it’s not that MTP rank slides are being worn per se that grips me, the problem lies in an HQ section publishing imagery of them being worn contrary to recently published prohibition and that publication is on their ‘official’ public contact page.
its not even that - its a dumb rule, and I like it when people break dumb rules, and having the person making that rule break it undermines it even more - its that despite being ‘caught’ breaking their own rule, the integrity vacuum at HQAC and its local lackeys will happily, next week or the week after, come down on a lesser mortal like a ton of bricks for the same thing.
the worst thing is that they genuinely won’t understand what the problem with that is…
its amusing that the special case pleading has already started: ‘it was late’, it wasn’t in public’, ‘my blokes work really hard’ - like no other #%uk€r in the ACO does stuff late at night, or away from public view, or after a full days mortgage paying. try using that with the regional cretin and see how far it gets the lower orders of mankind.
is there a Mess Webley at Sleaford Tech - because there ought to be…
I’ve got a slightly autistic four year old who could take them through the basics - she’d probably have a greater grip on integrity and leadership as well…
Glad to see the point being missed by so many, it’s not the rank slides but the elitist above the law attitude it represents as some have cottoned on to … but hey, no lets here more from that guy who thinks training effective leadership means teaching young people that if they’d understand a rule they can just ignore it… rather than being an instructor and helping them understand… at least I’ll know who to thank when some young rapscallion breaks my windows because he didn’t ‘understand’ that to damage other people things was against the rules and decided as his ACO staff have taught him to go for his life. Someone have a word!
I like the way we are talking about HQAC breaking their own rules. The ACO CTT didn’t write the dress regulations, ATF staff sicked them up with their own power trips added in (which are increasing). The ACOCTT are just a bunch of very hard working VOLUNTEER staff just like the rest of us. I never wore embroidered VRT pins until I did my SAAI course, however in the space of two weekends I snapped 2 pins and ended up wearing just braid. Hence embroidered are much better. Now I wear them et voila, no more broken pins. BUT I only wear them when doing weapons, on camp generally, in green generally and in the mess, on with the gilts.
