Proposed Changes to Civilian Committees

Is there a Wing Chair Civ Com meeting this weekend?

Any truth in rumour that all Sqn funds are going to be centralised at Wing.

Any info or details.

Centralising funds WILL.NOT.WORK

In the sense that current funding, purchaes, plans etc will stop and total funds into the Corps will shrink by id hazard a guess at over 75%.

Im not raising funds i have no control over.

Any risk that funds we raise can be misapproproated by wing and thats a big naffing NOPE.

#death of Corps.
#end of AT
#bye bye Tony


An interesting rumor. I’ve not heard anything here.

I do however remember a certain letter written by Tony addressed to all CWCs a while ago. If you read between the lines it seemed like he wanted rid of squadron CWCs.

More than rumour. Source with strong oversight on such matters confirmed a desire directly to alter the way sqn funds are overseen - “trustees consisting of enthusiastic amateurs are too high risk”.

However recognition was given during that conversation to the need to ensure proper allocation of funds to those who raised it.

So we will just have to see how it emerges.

I was told a figure of unaccounted sqn funds…its horrific.

Better governance is always a good thing



If this is solved.

And i as OC have less work ref civ coms.

But i have no faith that either nationality or especially locally. Our raised funds wont be denied for our purposes or repurposed for others.



But only those who have worked with civ coms to build Sqns will understand.
Any other players on Units etc, only know through word of mouth.

Almost all RAFAC staff have no knowledge of financing a sqn and what it really takes in totality.
Not just the money but the governance.

Ocs and former ocs at best.

How will existing multi year grants be dealt with under this magical future?

How will legacys and bequeathments be dealt with.

Etc etc.

Its not just about a new pot to put subs into!

If there are allegations of ‘unaccounted’ funds than that is a matter for the police.


In particular of the bequeathment states that the legacy is conditional on being to a specific unit or for a specific purpose. Maybe this hasn’t been thought through?


I have heard the rumour that their is a meeting and that Sqn civcom will no longer be allowed to retain direct ownership/control of money. With it held for by them by wings. How they wil enforce 900+ independent charities giving up their money to another charity I have no idea.

I also know from talking to other Sqns staff I’m friendly with that if the rumour is true their Sqns are going to go on a spending spree and spend every single penny they have saved. Which in some cases is considerable.
I am aware of at least one civcom that owns land & property worth many tens of thousands of pounds after a bequest many many years ago. The land has been rented by the Sqn CivCom to RFCA for a considerable period. Would you give that up?


With that sort of asset, any sequestration of the land/funds, it would be worth the Civ Com taking legal advice about the legality of such a move, particularly if the terms of the bequest stated that it was for Squadron ownership and use only.


Most CWCs charity aim will have something that specifically names their squadron, and benefiting them. If giving up funds/control to wing goes against those aims then I’m sure a non-insignificant number of those charities will fight back.

It will likely also make it harder/impossible to get certain grants.

This is of course assuming these rumours are true.


No maybe about it.
Our usual grant funders wont give money if this happens.

Ditto the national lottery most likely wont.


Yeah. Rather than 30 squadrons each getting say, £1000, the wing would now get £1000 to split up.

Where’s @Aries when we need them! :grin::grin:


Better governance is a good thing. Generating more governance though, is not better governance, and I’d be concerned that that’s what will happen.

And of course “enthusiastic amateurs are too high risk” summarises the attitude towards many CFAVs. Surely that describes all of us who aren’t permanent staff?

In my experience on several Sqns, committees work well, have vital links with the local community and do a really good job. Holding funds centrally will damage that local enthusiasm.


Spot on.


So if this is on the agenda and comes to pass, how is it sold to the cadets who everybody is here for?

Normally very willing to assist the Civ Com in raising funds because they know it will go into their own Squadron for present and future benefit, will they be so willing if the money goes outside the Squadron into a big pot, for which they will receive marginal if any benefit.

What if cadets and Squadrons just turn round and say ‘on your bike’ we’re not turning up for any event that monies go to a Wing pot.

As governance has been mentioned, what is the oversight of any wing managed pot?

Subs get paid by parents to cover sqn costs and the Wing levy, if I’m getting it right (I think I am, but have little involvement, happy to be corrected).

If they’re no longer going to be allowed to control the sqn costs part, what’s to stop every sqn simply charging enough to cover the Wing levy and zero additional costs?

No money to be misappropriated, no funding going to a central pot to be at risk of being used by the people who didn’t put in, and as far as I’m concerned, no skin of my nose at a sqn.

Anything to stop that working?

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@FunVampire. Only issue with that idea is that means that any other kit or thing the Sqn normally funds couldn’t be done anymore. No canteen,no BBQ, no purchasing of kit for DofE/AT no computers nothing. So yes you could pay wing levy and basic running costs but no money for the big purchases.

We as a Sqn fundraising considerable for our big ticket items but if we had to give the money to a wing controlled pot where their was any risk they could’ve either refuse our spending of our money and say no you can’t use it for that or it might get spent on something else it will be hard to get anyone to help fundraise.

Also what about welfare cases right now their are a number of cases where cadets can’t afford things and it’s handled locally by the Sqn civcom for either Subs or camps and so on now we would need to convince wing to do that for every single case adding considerably to delays and to the admin burden


You are correct, but this is more that any money raised through events, sponsorship, legacies etc goes directly to the Wing rather than the Squadron account. That means that Wing have control of spending the Squadron and cadets efforts etc. If only a small percentage of Squadrons have their funds taken, how will it be disbursed?