Need some advice


And we only get pay on limited events. So would you class us as volunteers on a normal parade night? Or when doing an event after exhausting or VA days?


I would ask the local HMRC office how they view it because if you pay income tax and NI, do they look upon it as secondary employment especially a defacto contract is signed between the CFAV and the ACO.


HMRC tax you on income. Their view on employment status is completely different to the employment law view on employment status.


My bold. Pep will be after you lot if you aren’t careful. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


ok, so the meeting happened a few days ago, proof was provided that there has been no contact between my youngest (Z) and M since the screaming call in September 2018.

Also a bit annoyed that even though Z was accompanied to the Camp Office and reported the incident at the annual camp the CO of the sqn claims there is no record or report of the incident, so once we were home from the meeting Z went through notes and photos of the camp and found the names of the CI in charge of the barrack in which they were sleeping who escorted Z to the office and found the name of another cadet from a sqn elsewhere within the wing who also accompanied Z to the camp office as a witness to the incident.

The CO of sqn A whom i had a meeting with claims that the report should have come back to them while at camp or afterwards as it was to do with a cadet within his sqn and Z (who on paper was still a cadet at sqn A at that point even though they had started at sqn B.

I am quite worried that the record of the incident was not recorded.
Z i hesitant about returning despite loving the cadets
X (my eldest) is happy to return and this will be sorted in the next week.

The CO wasn’t clear about the action he was planning to take with regards to M and the rumors and nastiness now he has proof that Z has had no contact.
All he stated was he was going to speak to cadets about the night my children returned to sqn A and ‘get to the bottom of it’ (even though I was under the assumption this is what his investigation over the past 6 weeks had been about!)

I expressed my thanks to the CO for his investigations so far and he said the door was always open for my children to return, either to his sqn or he would make arrangements for them to attend another (closest after sqn A is around 15 miles away)

My only question now is, why was the incident at the camp not recorded properly??

my youngest was threatened and left scared by the actions of another cadet and with the assistance of the CI reported it to a senior officer yet there is no record of it anywhere - this bothers me.

Advice on next steps would be greatly appreciated.


It may be worth sending an email to the RAF Air Cadet Liaison Officer. All camps have a ‘Daily Occurrences’ register, where things like this are meant to be recorded. If this was recorded, you should be able to get a copy of that.

That said, a lot of camp staff I’ve been away with treat it as optional…


If you freelance for a given period of time for the same employer/organisation HMRC regard that as employment.


Normally this is a Wing based DOB so goes back to Wing HQ at end of camp season.


I have seen in recent years
The Book supplies by the camp comm

As neither wing or the station wanted or supplied one.

I have also seen the outrageous things staff wrote in it,
Including some moron using 2 pages to describe how mired they were because they were duty.

I wouldn’t email the aclo direct I would hound the camp Com as the aclo May of moved on


I was under the understanding that the DOB was provided by the ACLO, but the last CC returns it to HQAC via WHQ - I’ve been on camps where previous entries were made by other wings and CCF units. I’ve also CC’d the first ATC camp of the year, and the DOB was already in place…?

Regardless of ownership, it should still have the information as reported by the OP.

Personally, I would email the ACLO - they may have moved, but if the station still hold the diary, the new ACLO should be able locate it.

Plus, you could contact the CI concerned, and ask them what they remember about the incident.

Failing that, go straight to HQAC. It sounds like the wing in question hasn’t covered themselves in glory,and I wouldn’t put it past the OC wing to ignore requests like that to make the problem go away.

Plus, there is always the last resort of making a fuss on Dawn’s social media accounts…


What people need to be clear on is that should there be an incident, which ends up in court (luckily very rare), the DOB will be used as evidence as it is an official document, as it does for military.

So it needs to be completed clearly and factually, not the usual ramblings that you normally read or that fact that nothing happened during the whole day.


This is what is worrying me!
I know the about time and exact date incident happened at the annual camp, my child phoned me in hysterics and crying within minutes of it happening!
They then handed the phone off to the person I later found out to be the CI in charge of the barrack where they were sleeping, and the CI assured me that they were hanging up and going to report it to the SO’s in the camp office!
My youngest even called me afterwards to tell me what had been said and the actions taken!
I asked if anyone else witnessed it and if they were ok, did they want collecting early? and was told another cadet they’d made friends with wrote a witness statement about it, that the cadets who threatened them were moved barrack but not sent home.

So why was it never documented??
Why was no report written or filed??
If it was serious enough to ask for witnesses then it should have been reported on!!


I’d argue that the relevant forms would be far more important (ie if someone’s injured then the MoD F492). The use of an ‘occurrence book’ seems to be sporadic, un-standardised and arguable as to whether it’s actually required by policy.


So are you advocating that there shouldn’t be some form of recording occurances when they happen in a factual way? That would not be acceptable either in the aviation or healthcare industries.


We’re in neither…

I’m saying that both policy and practice currently seem only to obligate recording when something significant happens.


I see you have missed quoting my second sentence. You have the care of other peoples children in your charge, therefore recording should be mandatory detailing a days activities, who took part and those people should sign the book also of any incidents occuring, being signed by all those involved.

If an incident happens and it’s not recorded then in 6 weeeks time following memories become hazy or can even be changed.


I agree with what Matt is saying
Neither policy or practices indicate that keeping an occurrence book no longer seems to be relevant/ wanted.

As I said previously I have seen CCs take their own book from camp to camp they are in charge of have it kept up to date with what is happening then take it home as their record nothing to do with the wing or station.

in regards to this incident and the way data protection may be seen to be working if their was an incident report in the book it may only say Cadet a and b had a issue CC and CI smith are resolving. If you think of a FA incident you cannot put down the full scope of the problem so it could be said that the same applies here.

Your best bet would be to track down who has the witness statements you understand were taken who ever has them has possibly everything and the key to this issue.


You never see a daily occurrence book outside of an annual camp, why do you jeeed one for a trip to RAF Halton but not to HMS Bristol on on a DofE to Snowdonia?


i would say it’s called covering your backside.


Your best bet would be to track down who has the witness statements you understand were taken who ever has them has possibly everything and the key to this issue.

The issue I have is the CO claims there is NO record of it anywhere!!
Claims to have spoken to the Camp Commandant and they too claim to be unaware!
Yet I have my youngest, a witness and the CI claiming they went to the camp office and reported it!

It really is worrying - I mean what if the threat was carried out and this cadet actually attempted to suffocate my child while asleep??

Would that have been report worthy?