Agreed, on the plus side, I did see some of the UOR MTP CS95 pattern shirts on a stall the other day. So you could theoretically have your cake and eat it too.
TBH, upon being allowed to wear MTP that was pretty much my plan!
And Iām not buying one of those newfangled stable belts with the clasp either!
[quote=ādjriceā post=9852]Indeed to all the above, but I canāt be out of touch as I do it everyday 
To address your points though, yes there are people who wear MTP on a daily basis and therefore the earlier order applies.
But, in the big scheme of things the vast majority donāt wear MTP everyday. All Regt type training is now classed as operational training - especially CCS and IPDT (and other) Guard is mostly done by the MPGS augmented by regulars where required.
Ultimately the RAF is a Blue organisation and the majority of itās personnel wear Blue everyday. If we need to wear the disruptive type then it means weāre working on (or training for) Operations.
:D[/quote]
With respect, Iām aware you canāt be out of touch, which is why Iām shocked by how out of touch you sound.
All the training I do is Regiment training and the only time we are allowed to untuck our āshirtsā is when we are actually out in the field. This is the case at my parent unit and was the case last time I was at Honington. If you think about it, following your logic, everyone at Hons would be untucked all the time.
MPGS, despite being Army and supposed to wear it untucked, are tucking in on RAF stations. Iāve seen it at three stations now.
Donāt forget the guys going through phase 1 pre-blues issue, too.
It would be nice if the rest of the Air Force was as sensible as your bit seems to be, because youāre totally right, if youāre wearing PCS and doing green stuff, surely thatās āoperational trainingā?* But most of us arenāt in a position to make that argument.
*weāre back to the Aussie example from earlier
[quote=āMattBā post=9874]TBH, upon being allowed to wear MTP that was pretty much my plan!
And Iām not buying one of those newfangled stable belts with the clasp either![/quote]
I like the way you think MattB
Wellā¦ just to prove my pointā¦ I looked at SROs today and we are to wear the jacketā¦Tucked in!
I give up
broadly iād concur with Mattb - what matters is that everyone can get hold of a āgreenā uniform that is servicable and that fits.
however, two other observed things put my vote into MTP for the ACO (given the choice):
firstly that it is more effective in the field as a camouflage than DPM - a cadet wearing MTP will be better able (all things considered) to produce a successful C&C āproductā than a cadet wearing DPM. the ATC does not, to my knowledge, exist to deliberately provide cadets with a second class training experienceā¦
secondly that as has been said, there are downsides to a marked differentiation between CFAVās and Regular/Reservists - at a range conference in the not-distant past i saw a very definate line drawn between those in MTP and those in DPM (which was the ATC): the people in MTP (which incuded the RAF and ACF) just didnāt see the people in DPM as being āpart of their gangā and they were kind of left out of the general horse-trading that accompanies range conferences. another ATC Sqn present, who were in Blues rather than DPM, did not suffer the same fateā¦
given the lack of DPM thats going to be available a change-over is inevitable - the ACO may as well just come up with some kind of plan to manage the change-over.
[quote=āangusā post=9890]another ATC Sqn present, who were in Blues rather than DPM, did not suffer the same fateā¦[/quote]Thereās your answer then
[quote=āangusā post=9890]firstly that it is more effective in the field as a camouflage than DPM - a cadet wearing MTP will be better able (all things considered) to produce a successful C&C āproductā than a cadet wearing DPM. the ATC does not, to my knowledge, exist to deliberately provide cadets with a second class training experienceā¦[/quote]Whilst MTP is the better camouflage, I donāt think that we desperately need to swap.
Fieldcraft training is more about skill than kit, and DPM is good enough!
No amount of MTP will help a bunch of cadets chatting as they wander across a skyline in daylight, or wander about with torches and chatter/giggling at night.
Yes it will, their hands wonāt be cold.
Yes it will, their hands wonāt be cold.[/quote]
Unfortunately the handwarmer pockets are difficult to use when wearing webbing. Good on the range though!
Hearing a rumour MTP is going to be scaled - anyone know any-more on this i.e. when. Personally I donāt want it but hey ho.
I think it unlikely at the moment.
Authorised - itāll happen.
Scaled - not convinced.
I have heard that the only hold up is the policy letter and the ACMB.
From what iāve heard, CAC acknowledges the sticky situation weāll end up in if we donāt act now and will open it up to wear if you can acquire it, in much the same way as CS95 went, but no direct scaling.
I concur.
Sheās wearing it; CTT have been authorized; SATTs have been authorized. Itās just a matter of time.
[quote=āwdimagineer2bā post=10645]I concur.
Sheās wearing it; CTT have been authorized; SATTs have been authorized. Itās just a matter of time.[/quote]
Until what? Authorisation yes. Scaling no. Except for those branches of the organisation which are already scaled for CS95: SATT, CTT, Junior Leaders etc.
As for the rest of us, at a risk of repeating myself:
We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP. We will not be scaled MTP.
[quote=āwdimagineer2bā post=10645]I concur.
Sheās wearing it; CTT have been authorized; SATTs have been authorized. Itās just a matter of time.[/quote]
1 individual in the RAFVR(T) has been authorised. SATTs, JLs & CTT will be scaled, plan is Sept 1st authorisation for ACO personnel so that JL can then be issued their kit. TMK
By my book that means anyone who can be bothered to purchase or obtain via biscuits can then wear it.
[quote=āthemajorā post=10647][quote=āwdimagineer2bā post=10645]I concur.
Sheās wearing it; CTT have been authorized; SATTs have been authorized. Itās just a matter of time.[/quote]
1 individual in the RAFVR(T) has been authorised. SATTs, JLs & CTT will be scaled, plan is Sept 1st authorisation for ACO personnel so that JL can then be issued their kit. TMK
By my book that means anyone who can be bothered to purchase or obtain via biscuits can then wear it.[/quote]
What individual in the RAFVR(T) has been authorised to wear it?? if you mean CAC she is RAFR not VR(T) thats why she can wear it she follows AP1358 not 1358C
Well as your book should be AP1358C untill it says you can you cant.
Members of SATTs are scaled for the stuff.
It is because they are scaled for it (and CS95 canāt seemingly be provided on scale now) that it was necessary.
Sorry I got confused by the " 1 individual"