Lgbt

Cadets Ask the Staff
41

This then begs the question just how prepared are any staff in the Corps to deal with any situation, including such as in this thread?

Some of us older ones who’ve got children and had to deal with a multitude of situations maybe or feel a little better equipped to deal with things. You’d need to go some to shock me.

Corps should be giving us the appropriate training and guidance and lists of organisations we can refer people to. This is where I’d rely on my Padre.[/quote]

We are not trained to deal with everything, and with this being a voluntary part time gig it just isn’t feasible to fully train staff to deal with all the issues that a young person might come to a member of staff with.

That said I would agree there is more that could and should be done to guide all staff on how to handle cadet issues. I think the advice provided on the SCC course was good - but as that is only given to OC Sqns it doesn’t doesn’t help the rest of the Sqn staff.

ACP 4 provides a list of organisations that can provide specialist support for a number of issues Cadets might be dealing with, though I note it doesn’t have specific gender dysphoria support guidance. Maybe that will be addressed after the LGBT feedback if someone reports it as an issue. Thought the NHS is a good starting place http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx

In the end we all need to do the least harm when we give support and that should include keeping any judgement or dismissive thoughts on their problem to ourselves.

42

It is ACO.lgbt.cdts@gmail.com

43

But they have a far greater knowledge of groups and contacts within the local community than a large percentage of adult staff, regardless of their own opinion.

There is the other side of this as crops up in so many threads pertaining to ‘problems’ cadets have outside the Corps, why are they talking to us?
Schools have people they see all day every day who they have must closer relationships and who have much more immediate access to information etc than we will ever have and some in CP who will have had extensive training and or experience. Having been into secondaries to speak to people about doing recruiting, there are (or were in the local schools) numerous posters and leaflets available about anything you would care to imagine. We have ACP4 with a few email addresses and or phone numbers, that are advertised in schools.

44

That’s the standard cop out for the organisaton and comes from it’s desire to handle / do everything in-house, because the people in charge like to think they know best, when there are people / organisations out there who could do things for us, who are far better qualified and knowledgable because it’s what they do for a living. But this would mean them admitting they don’t know everything.

45

[quote=“Pamela” post=23921][quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=23874]

Answer me this.
A cadet comes to you with this whole gender dysmorphia…How do you react? Tell them they can wear a skirt and “identify” as a girl?

Another cadet comes to you with muscle dysnorphia… would you hand them a protein shake and tell them to do more weights maybe even inject some steroids for them?

A cadet comes to you and tells you that they identify as a Dog… do you pat them on the head and say good do and make them fetch their beret?

I mean honestly. Wheres the line?

Wow some people are gay. You want equality. you get treated the same as everyone else.
Dont then kick off about wanting special treatment.

From now on. I will identify as a sweet potato.[/quote]

I would strongly suggest that you answer with a tiny bit of honesty but more tact and empathy that you show on this thread.

You should tell that Cadet that you are out of your depth but you will find someone better equipped to support them - and then go do that.

That would be my recommendation for how you deal with any trouble any cadet comes to you with because whatever your personal opinion on their situation or issue they have reached out for help and guidance and if there is one thing they don’t need its judgement and mockery from the ill informed.[/quote]

At what point did I judge or make a mockery? If you read the rest of my posts I think you will find I did say it should be dealt with people far more qualified or able to than me.
Parents, Docters, Social Workers etc etc.

And no. I disagree. My bull in a china shop tactics are just fine thank you. If people that dont understand are afraid to ask and talk about these things how will a solution be found.

Just because I dont like broccoli and cant understand why you like it, doesnt mean you repeatidly telling me its good, and that I am wrong, will make me like it.

I will be honest. I dont understand it. I probably never will.
I dont see how it is any different to any other mental illness that affects the body which differs in the minds eye. (Anerexia, Muscle Dysmoprhia).
Its harmful. We dont encourage either to do more excercise or that their minds image is right and encourage it.
So why do we do allow it for transgender. We allow people to mutiliate themselves. Yet we discourage self harmers?

If thats what makes you happy then great. I hope you find what your looking for. What I dislike however is being told that its normal, what I should find offensive and what I should think,and that if I think differently then I am somehow a bad person.

That being said would I treat a transgender person any differently? No. I hate everyone equally.

Would I feel uncomfortable if I was in a changing room with said person? Yes.
Do some females feel uncomfortable with said people in their changing room or toilets? Yes.

Does this make us bad people? Sweet potato loving madness no.

I would be interested in hear from a transgender person on similar issues like people who think they are “otherkin” or part animals, or identify as animals? Or maybe people who love animals or inanimate objects?

46

My bold… I think that is what Pamela is on about. Homosexuality is not a mental illness. That sort of attitude about it is one of reasons for having a ‘split society’ and is one of the causes for many younger people int he LGBT ‘community’ taking their own lives as they are not felt like they are wanted/part of the wider society.

Choose your words carefully next time, because that is offensive.

47

At what point did I say Homosexuality is a mental illness?
Read the rest of that paragraph.

48

[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=23938]At what point did I say Homosexuality is a mental illness?
Read the rest of that paragraph.[/quote]

In the sentence that was quoted, primarily because of the word “other”.
The rest of the paragraph doesn’t modify that.

49

Being gay doesnt affect the way you see your body as different to the reality. Nor do they feel the need to mutilate or harm themselves.

The idea that the word “other” stems to homosexuality is an assumption and wrong. Especially when I provided suitable examples.

(Edit. This following paragraph is not about homosexuals but transgender)

A person may think they are fat. In their minds eye they see themselves as fat.
When in reality they are dangerously underweight and in need of help.
We dont tell them that their image of themsevles is correct and to continue this thought process and hand them a pair of running shoes?

50

[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=23941]A person may think they are fat. In their minds eye they see themselves as fat.
When in reality they are dangerously underweight and in need of help.[/quote]
You can be dangerously underweight.
You cannot - to my knowledge - be dangerously gay. Fabulously gay yes, dangerously no.

51

[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=23930]
At what point did I judge or make a mockery? If you read the rest of my posts I think you will find I did say it should be dealt with people far more qualified or able to than me.
Parents, Docters, Social Workers etc etc.

And no. I disagree. My bull in a china shop tactics are just fine thank you. If people that dont understand are afraid to ask and talk about these things how will a solution be found.

Just because I dont like broccoli and cant understand why you like it, doesnt mean you repeatidly telling me its good, and that I am wrong, will make me like it.

I will be honest. I dont understand it. I probably never will.
I dont see how it is any different to any other mental illness that affects the body which differs in the minds eye. (Anerexia, Muscle Dysmoprhia).
Its harmful. We dont encourage either to do more excercise or that their minds image is right and encourage it.
So why do we do allow it for transgender. We allow people to mutiliate themselves. Yet we discourage self harmers?

If thats what makes you happy then great. I hope you find what your looking for. What I dislike however is being told that its normal, what I should find offensive and what I should think,and that if I think differently then I am somehow a bad person.

That being said would I treat a transgender person any differently? No. I hate everyone equally.

Would I feel uncomfortable if I was in a changing room with said person? Yes.
Do some females feel uncomfortable with said people in their changing room or toilets? Yes.

Does this make us bad people? Sweet potato loving madness no.

I would be interested in hear from a transgender person on similar issues like people who think they are “otherkin” or part animals, or identify as animals? Or maybe people who love animals or inanimate objects?[/quote]

Gender dysphoria is not a new fad made up by ‘hipsters with too much time on their hands’.
Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition not a mental illness.
Gender reassignment surgery is not the same as self-harm.

I’m not telling you what you should find offensive, I’m telling you some of the things you have written are judgemental, mocking and ignorant.
If you had a cadet come to you for help (because they built up the courage to reach out to another person for help and picked you as the adult they respect and trust) and you shared half of what you have said on here you could do a lot of damage!

If you genuinely don’t understand and want to talk about LGBT issues to learn more then I may have misjudged you but you come across as set in your opinions.
You can have opinions on whatever you like but you admit that you don’t know about LGBT and specifically Trans* issues and you don’t understand. Therefore your opinion comes from a place of ignorance.

In case there is a cadet or other young person who stumbles across this thread who is struggling with gender identity issues (or someone wants somewhere to refer someone this organisation can offer support http://www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/

52

[quote=“MattB” post=23942][quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=23941]A person may think they are fat. In their minds eye they see themselves as fat.
When in reality they are dangerously underweight and in need of help.[/quote]
You can be dangerously underweight.
You cannot - to my knowledge - be dangerously gay. Fabulously gay yes, dangerously no.[/quote]

Funniest thing I’ve read for a while. Thanks Matt!

53

Whilst in no way agreeing with RearAdmiral, I can see what he’s trying to say.

The central topic is I think being missed though - we have probably always had and always will have cadets of all sexual orientations. What the Corps is missing is a definitive method of appeasing everyone because it simply isn’t possible. As mentioned earlier the issues tend to occur more for cadets than staff because:

a) staff tend to be more grown up and accepting of people’s differences compared to kids, and
b) Staff, whilst away, are usually accommodated in single rooms. Not always, but a lot more often than cadets are.

There is no real solution to this. It is impractical to insist on single rooms for all and unfair to single someone out for being non-heterosexual and make them stay in a different room.

The best thing we can do, in my mind, is preach tolerance. Note that tolerating something doesn’t mean you have to like it or agree with it, but simply not whine and moan about it. For a start, most people that would feel “uncomfortable” around LGBT people seem to forget that just as heterosexuals don’t want to have sex with everyone of the opposite gender they see, the same applies equally to LGBT people. They have standards too :wink:

54

^^^Well said pep!!!

and is tolerance not a worthwhile trait to enforce?
if we are to “train” these young adult in the ways of the world then adopting tolerance is always as worthwhile solution

i am often taken back by the manner Cadets have to “social rejects” we all know the ones, those with milk bottle glasses, the “special” (thick) ones, troublesome ones, even the gingers ( :stuck_out_tongue: ) rather than pushed aside and left out they are instead involved and included, something which at the school playground you simply wouldn’t see!

out of interest, as it is mainly (only?) CFAVs discussing this issue, are there any known comments from LGBT Cadets who have requested “special treatment” or raised a voice of unhappiness because of the way they have been treated by fellow Cadets or lack of understanding from CFAVs?

are we arguing for the sake of it?

55

I can see both sides of the argument, but I’m still struggling with these questions.

Assuming that we’re just dealing with cadets under the age of 18, and we have separate dormitories and communal showers for male and female cadets (this is the standard setup for the accommodation we use most often).

Where should a cadet who appears to be physically male, but identifies as a female, sleep/shower?
Where should a cadet who appears to be physically female, but identifies as a male, sleep/shower?

To those who would prefer to segregate them, assume that the cadet does not want to be isolated and wants to feel integrated with the gender they identify with.

I’m struggling to see any alternative than to put them with their physical counterparts. I think that there would be outrage from parents, cadets and probably the media if you put a 13 year old female cadet in the shower with a 17 year old who appears very much male.

If I was told to share a room/shower with someone who appeared to be the opposite gender to me, I wouldn’t care. As I tell the cadets who are scared of communal showers, if somebody wants to watch me in the shower then the joke’s on them. However, I don’t think that most cadets and parents would be happy with this arrangement.

56

You put them with their physical gender. We don’t have the facilities to cater for every scenario.

57

[quote=“talon” post=23955][quote=“jacques” post=23954]
Where should a cadet who appears to be physically male, but identifies as a female, sleep/shower?
Where should a cadet who appears to be physically female, but identifies as a male, sleep/shower?
[/quote]

You put them with their physical gender. We don’t have the facilities to cater for every scenario.[/quote]

This.
Yet some people would claim this to be humiliating etc etc Blah blah blah.

Jacques raises a good point, and the fact is both sides need to be understanding.

If segregating said people makes other people more comfortable then I am sorry but your just going to have to get over feeling “isolated”

And Pep, in that light, why cant we have mixed showers. If not every hetreosexual person wants to sleep with the opposite sex, people that find it uncomfortable as just going to have to he tolerent.

And MattB. Fantastic post, however my original quote was not made towards gays But indeed transgenders.

If a dog was born in a stable and I put a saddle on it, would it be a horse?

Pamela, Like I said in previous posts before, I would direct the said cadet to much better places for help. In no way would I word it or say what I have said here to said cadet.

58

[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=23957]And MattB. Fantastic post, however my original quote was not made towards gays But indeed transgenders. [/quote]In which case:

You can be dangerously underweight.
You can’t be dangerously transsexual.

59

[quote=“MattB” post=23958][quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=23957]And MattB. Fantastic post, however my original quote was not made towards gays But indeed transgenders. [/quote]In which case:

You can be dangerously underweight.
You can’t be dangerously transsexual.[/quote]

Again. You missed my point…

And Pamela I may seem set in my ways with my opinions but thats because I havent been told anything that can tell me otherwise.

60

[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=23957][quote=“talon” post=23955][quote=“jacques” post=23954]
Where should a cadet who appears to be physically male, but identifies as a female, sleep/shower?
Where should a cadet who appears to be physically female, but identifies as a male, sleep/shower?
[/quote]

You put them with their physical gender. We don’t have the facilities to cater for every scenario.[/quote]

This.
Yet some people would claim this to be humiliating etc etc Blah blah blah.

Jacques raises a good point, and the fact is both sides need to be understanding.

If segregating said people makes other people more comfortable then I am sorry but your just going to have to get over feeling “isolated”

And Pep, in that light, why cant we have mixed showers. If not every hetreosexual person wants to sleep with the opposite sex, people that find it uncomfortable as just going to have to he tolerent.

And MattB. Fantastic post, however my original quote was not made towards gays But indeed transgenders.

If a dog was born in a stable and I put a saddle on it, would it be a horse?

Pamela, Like I said in previous posts before, I would direct the said cadet to much better places for help. In no way would I word it or say what I have said here to said cadet.[/quote]

I’m still really struggling to work out if you’re trolling or you have an antiquated view of the world. You know damn well why we don’t have mixed showers, stop looking for an argument where there isn’t one.