So a while ago the Comdt said they the ACO was looking at ideas on equality for LGBT etc and to email Wg Cdr Admin with any ideas… That was a good few months and I’ve noticed that on the popular Facebook page “you know youv’e been an air cadet when…” the subject has come up with a cadet setting up his own group etc…
What is the ACO doing about this in general? It seems like another thing they throw out there but are too slow at giving any feedback. Bear in mind that this does not just affect cadets but also staff too.
The best thing is nobody knowing, in that way get treated the same … which is equality.
As soon as someone sticks their head up, if they get things there is always the line of thought, are they getting it because, regardless of ability etc.
In my 30 odd years at work I’ve witnessed what are truly abominable acts of positive discrimination and seen senior managers tip-toeing around people who aren’t worth the oxygen they breath in terms of their performance, just in case they get offended or say you’re only doing it because.
Personally I don’t care about what label people want to attach to themselves or their lifestyles as long as it isn’t used as way of getting or doing things over and above others.
Equality should be inherent and I had believed that was what we already had in place. I’m not sure what propose the recent announcement was meant to serve.
I also agree to some extent that “nobody knowing” is a reasonable goal, though it sniffs of the old US military policy of “don’t ask, don’t tell”. Besides, often people will know and it shouldn’t be an issue if they do. It is how much people actually care about it which truly matters.
A recent thread here discussed deeper issues of gender identity and how that might affect accommodation on camps, or matters of uniform (dress as you identify?) - I’m not convinced that those questions have been sufficiently addressed by HQAC.
And I would hope that would have got raised in the emails to Wg Cdr Admin as I believe that would be the intention, to raise awareness of these issues.
I don’t think they could tbh as it would require cadets being open at a time in their lives when they might not be ready to be, or, just going through that confusing time called, being a teenager. Even some staff may not feel comfortable to be open, because of the stigma it carries.
This is a highly personal thing to and people find their own time and place to do it.
My mum and dad’s neighbour’s youngest son ‘came out’ about 20 years ago, when he was in his late 20s. A bloke in the village left his wife for another bloke and he was in his early 40s. Some will never say a thing.
Even if the ACO put policies in place, I doubt they would ever be used by anyone, unless it was to make a point and test the water.
I don’t think that these issues have been sufficiently addressed by society as a whole. In fact, I don’t think that most of the ‘issues’ have a solution.
I’ve witnessed competition between two minority groups at my university, over who should be most equal. The transgender lot managed to persuade the university to make all the toilets (in some buildings, as a trial) cubicle-only and gender-free, but now many Muslim students won’t use them and are complaining that they have to use the accessible (‘disabled’) toilets.
I don’t think that these issues have been sufficiently addressed by society as a whole. In fact, I don’t think that most of the ‘issues’ have a solution.
I’ve witnessed competition between two minority groups at my university, over who should be most equal. The transgender lot managed to persuade the university to make all the toilets (in some buildings, as a trial) cubicle-only and gender-free, but now many Muslim students won’t use them and are complaining that they have to use the accessible (‘disabled’) toilets.[/quote]
Wait. what.
What is the world coming too. Honestly. Too many left wing idiots rocking about with too much time on their hands.
I don’t think they could tbh as it would require cadets being open at a time in their lives when they might not be ready to be, or, just going through that confusing time called, being a teenager. Even some staff may not feel comfortable to be open, because of the stigma it carries.
This is a highly personal thing to and people find their own time and place to do it.
My mum and dad’s neighbour’s youngest son ‘came out’ about 20 years ago, when he was in his late 20s. A bloke in the village left his wife for another bloke and he was in his early 40s. Some will never say a thing.
Even if the ACO put policies in place, I doubt they would ever be used by anyone, unless it was to make a point and test the water.[/quote]Plenty of people ‘come out’ as transgender as teenagers, and last time I checked we take cadets up to the age of 20.
And what of staff? Seeing as we can have uniformed staff up to age 55 and beyond, it seems reasonable that someone might have gotten around to coming out by then.
When and if any individual chooses to make public their preferences or position in this respect is their business - we can only work with the information we have.
It shouldn’t make a whole lot of difference to what we do but as has been said, we are somewhat constrained by the fact that society as a whole hasn’t quite caught up. My worry is more that we end up with a clash between personal identity and child protection legislation.
I know two openly-gay officers and I’ve known roughly 20 or so openly-gay cadets, including several on my own squadrons. I’m not aware of a single problem that this has caused (aside from highlighting the ACO’s nonsensical ‘There must be a duty female! Think of the children!’ rules on gender supervision).
My bold: every time someone banged on at me along the lines of ‘Wah! Wah! You can’t walk across the car park with a female cadet in full view of everyone because child protection wah!’ I always asked them “What if, at this point, I told you I was gay?” And it always produced the blankest of looks.
As someone with a gay brother, a gay work colleague, two openly gay close friends, who met plenty of fellow cadets who were gay when I was one… I’ve always thought it was pretty odd that the ATC prefers to pretend gay people don’t exist…
What if someone is lying to manipulate the system?
What about letting a Lesbian Instructor do the same with male cadets?
Maybe the cadet would feel more comfortable with a same sex chaperone?
There are maybe some things female cadets would feel uncomfortable to ask a female instructor let alone a male one (regardless of sexuality)
And vice verca
Why all this need to bend rules and change things and do this and avoid that and offending people this and upsetting people nonsence.
Female cover for females.
Male cover for males.
Nice and Simple. No sexuality. No confusion. No ambigious situations.
Nice and Simple. No sexuality. No confusion. No ambigious situations.[/quote]
Except it isn’t simple. Sexuality is a thing. People are confused. And the situation is ambiguous.
Your right, it is all nice and simple if we pretend there aren’t any LGBT people. How dare the world not conform to our handy, easy to manage binary concepts?
As a cadet, I saw a female cadet accommodated with an openly bi-sexual fellow female. She was uncomfortable with this but her concerns were ignored because the staff didn’t want to deal with the awkward situation vis the other girl’s sexuality.
In fairness to the staff, they were never equipped to deal with it by an organisation that obsessed over male/female relations, but didn’t even consider homosexuality… at all… ever…
Well then, why dont we have 1 member of staff for each cause.
1 male straight
1 male gay
1 female straight
1 female gay
1 male transgender
1 female transgender
1 Unik (Sp?)
then we all get along.
And as for your situation. Why not split it down even further then, straight accomadation and gay accomadation?
Blah blah blah homophobic blah blah.
where do we draw the line.
And no. People arent confused, I dont beleive people are any different to how they used to be. But I do believe that the young mind is a very impressionable and fragile thing. And theres far too many hipsters with too much time on their hands and a blog trying to make themselves feel special.
Answer me this.
A cadet comes to you with this whole gender dysmorphia…How do you react? Tell them they can wear a skirt and “identify” as a girl?
Another cadet comes to you with muscle dysnorphia… would you hand them a protein shake and tell them to do more weights maybe even inject some steroids for them?
A cadet comes to you and tells you that they identify as a Dog… do you pat them on the head and say good do and make them fetch their beret?
I mean honestly. Wheres the line?
Wow some people are gay. You want equality. you get treated the same as everyone else.
Dont then kick off about wanting special treatment.
If you look at it just in terms of accommodating cadets of varying sexualities there is no chance.
The ACO has struggled with anything vaguely coherent or universally workable wrt accommodating cadets over 18 for 12 years and so to expect them to come up with any sort of solution for dealing with the problems of sexuality is a little bit too optomistic.
The option would have to be on all sides; put up with it or don’t go to camp or do DofE or anything where accommodation is a bit cosy.