Greatcoats and RAFAC


#21

I’m now picturing some 3ft tall 12 year old cdt drowning in a coat that could fit them, three siblings, the pet dog…


#22

Would be good for camping in though!!

In all seriousness though, I’d buy one…


#23

I think the not for ceremonial purpose bit is in there because where it is private purchase the quality and correctly fitting will vary


#24

You mean, like a lot of No1SD?


#25

Good grief how can something so simple be made into a such massive thing.
If it’s a private purchase who are some numpties with little else to do and may be a tad jealous they don’t have one, get too excited.
I had one years ago and wore it on parades, but wore it more walking around when it was cold/wet. When it got too small I gave it to someone of a slighter build.


#26

Mine is quite good for reminding me to go on a diet…


#27

The whole greatcoat issue is half-done.

We are told by the man who edits AP 1358C that the RAFAC pins are to be worn on the collar. Though, it’s not been properly written into our regulations, and that is not the traditional RAF location for such pins…

When the Auggies wore “A” distinguishing badges Officers wore gilt metal “A” through the rank braid on the shoulder straps (the same way ours used to wear VR(T) badges through the braid); WOs wore embroidered “A” on the lower sleeve, immediately below the WO or Macr rank badge; and other ranks wore embroidered “A” on the upper arm 1/4" below the Eagle badges.

WOs and Other ranks wore the embroidered badges in those positions on No 1 too… Not gilt badges on the collar like we do.


#28

perhaps the VRT/ATC/RAFAC is seen as a “trade” in the same way as the medical pins are seen on the labels of Regulars?

Nurses and Doctors have a lapel pin in the same/similar fashion as our VRT/ATC/RAFAC pins…

is this a case of mistaken identity, VRT/ATC/RAFAC being a brach it should follow the Aux format rather than that of a “trade” such as the medics??


#29

Well, RAFAC is not a branch. I cannot see that it matters what specifically the RAF do with their branches and insignia so long as we follow a similar general trend. RAFAC gilt pins on a lapel strikes me as entirely reasonable (for greatcoats and for 5s)


#30

Under AP 1358 (RAF Dress Regs) VRT Distinguishing Insignia was ordered in the same manner and locations as the equivalent “A” for RAuxAF. Which is correct, because it was a Branch.

Whilst there is certainly room to argue that we’re not an RAF Branch, and whilst it is also most important, simply, that our regulations are properly written; there is a logical, well-documented, and clearly written set of regulations which set a precedent which we could follow… If only those writing our regulations actually considered it.


#31

By all means follow a precedent, but lets not find reasons to complicate things and incur additional expense when there is a reasonable alternative which is close enough.

New commission and new branding is an opportunity to tidy out a lot of the fluff that has gathered over the years.

Can we not just take greatcoats off the “permitted” list and save a whole lot of bother?


#32

Heresy! Best bit of kit ever. :sunglasses:


#33

To comply with the style and intent of our current rank / formation markings, for Officers in greatcoats, the only logical combination now is for Crombie-cloth sliders embroidered with the standard legend RAF AIR CADETS in black thread, worn on the epaulettes.

Please don’t tell me that someone is saying (officially) that RAFAC pins should be worn on the lapels of greatcoats!!! That’s utter insanity!! That cannot work- it is a double-breasted garment, intended to be worn under bad weather conditions closed to the neck.

And unparalleled anywhere across the history of RAF pattern uniforms worn by any air force of the Crown…

Why is this all being made so hard?

Since we’re now stuck with having to wear full-titled rank-slides in all orders of dress which possess epaulettes (think about it), and RAFAC pins are meant only to be worn on No1/No5 dress, all that needs to be done is to apply the same logic to all commissioned officers that originally-applied only to Plt Offs & Fg Offs:

“Officers in orders of dress fitted with epaulettes shall wear an RAF AIR CADETS embroidered rank-slide made from a fabric/material that matches the garment. The title RAF AIR CADETS shall be embroidered in a suitable contrasting colour thread (black or light-grey), with the appropriate rank-braid affixed above”

Why is this apparently so difficult to issue-out as policy??


#34

The Royal Marines wear collar marine badges on their Greatcoats.


#35

As an NCO, what epaulettes?


#36

Good point! I would say the collar points for SNCOs is the only option.


#37

Badges at the top of the greatcoat arms.

04
These, but re-emboidered with the lettering RAF AIR CADETS. Stitched on quarter of an inch down from the shoulder-seam. Obtained as a £5 private purchase. With the shoulder-eagle (Sgt & FS) sewn-on below it, in the same manner as a certain Regiment which shall remain nameless in this thread.

WOs wear Offr-pattern greatcoats, so they should wear Offr-pattern RAF AIR CADETS Crombie rank-slide, obviously minus braid.

And all Sgts/FS & WOs should really wear the updated cloth badges on greatcoats (ie not recycled No1 dress ones, but the proper, larger duck-blue chevrons, with a cloth FS crown. (And RAFAC Aircrew Sgt/FS etc should also follow RAF dress tradition for greatcoats, with cloth over-chevron eagles)

No idea how to properly ‘crown’ an AWO-style WO badge onto a greatcoat, using the revised cloth rank-badge sizing. Probably a £10 private purchase as an embroidery request to a suitably-skilled station tailor, rescaling the solitary crowns to be in semi-keeping for relative size with the revised Royal Warrant/MACR expanded WO greatcoat badges.

Negative, see above. Small quantities, for specialist contexts within RAF Air Cadets.

Please can we do this right…with an eye towards following RAF dress traditions that have worked perfectly-well for the best part of a century, rather than entirely making something up, just because it seems like an easy fix.

RAFAC Pins on the semi-lapels of greatcoats won’t work…and nor would they on raincoats (also still a permitted item of clothing).

However, since the last-issued versions were all-ranks/ universal-fitted-epaulettes, I refer my colleagues to the solution I provided upthread (ie for raincoats, Offrs simply wear GP jacket style rank-slides, that is, light-grey embroidered RAF AIR CADETS slides made from Gannex blue-grey cloth, with braid above, and WOs/SNCOs just wear issue slides). Anyone with an earlier epauletteless/unbelted 1972 pattern raincoat should just use it to keep ice off their windscreens, and never wear it ever.


#38

What about sncos with regiment mudguards? Will they have to have both? Or just one?


#39

Hey, the US Army gets away with it:


#40

Are we the US army? Do we want to be anything like the US army?

No and no.

Thought not