The cadet in these circumstances was asked to do a job. Drive other cadets to AEF. I would argue that it could be identified by an insurance company as a ‘job of work’.
You could use that argument for anyone asked to do anything … can you take x to that sqn for shooting, can you take y to the athletics/swimming etc etc etc.
If insurance companies identify it as a job of work, that opens a whole load of questions to HQAC / MoD which they will deny we are doing a ‘job of work’.
Parents need to get Jonny to AEF… that would be SDP
Parents asks Jane to take Jonny with her as they are both going to AEF … still SDP
There is no need for business here as not in receipt of MMA which is the insurers primary criteria.
Further cadet is doing a hobby which is both social and pleasure.
I understand that just because someone doesnt claim where eligible it can be classed as “buisness”.
But a cadet is not eligible for any payment whatsoever. Something cant be a job of any kind without payment.
If the cadet themselves were flying then they are travelling for there hobby. I regularly give my climbing mates from my club a lift to the crag to climb. This is no different and I dont need business insurance for that.
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If you’re that worried about ensuring (for generally zero cost or at worst a very small fee) that your vehicle is properly insured for what we do, then just stop claiming travel, HTD and VA.
Or maybe just stop whinging?
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Just because you don’t get paid, doesn’t mean it isn’t a job.
Yourself and 3 friends going climbing is personal use therefore SDP, but undertaking that at the behest of an organisation would I suspect be looked at in a different light, in particular if you are being paid so-called ‘volunteer allowance’.
I was in a no-fault fatal RTC some years ago with a cadet on board, where one died one seriously injured and two minor injuries in the other vehicle The insurance company nearly pulled out on me because of my profession and taking a cadet to hospital who had a hand injury which required suturing. Never ever after that day transported cadets. The police investigation and the trip to the Coroners Court was not something I wished to repeat. Support for the ACO, square route of not a lot.
I was fully comp at the time including business. Not worth the risk.
I have Business insurance for work and have had before the Air Cadets even thought about it as a thing.
But don’t you think that just for once, HQAC gave something back rather than take all the time? They made a lot of the VoV project and as yet nothing forthcoming, that would even begin to suggest anything. Lots of noise about not having to put bits of paper in for VA, but we are still putting bits of paper in. So a B1N saying we have contacted the MIB and they can confirm that all Air Cadet usage is SDP and no requirement for business class insurance. Vehicles just need valid insurance.
You can check this on the MIB website.
The point I made was that I go climbing as a member of a club and take other club members, I recieve no money or allowance (although normally a pint or two comes my way at the monthly bar meet). In fact like cadets I pay for the pleasure of being a member. This is completely SDP as it’s my hobby.
A cadet who is part of the ATC going to an activity and drives other cadets. How is that any different to my situation above? They are members of a club taking other members with them. They are not volunteers like staff.
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Go on then i am interested.
What is your definition of a job where you are not given any pay, allowances or benefit of any kind. Baring in mind the “cadets” are not volunteers they are members of the organisation.
The MIB will contact every single insurer about every different policy they offer and all them about all the permutations available for us as staff? Really? Alternatively you can make a quick call to your insurers and let HQAC do something that you can’t do yourself
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Neither HQAC nor the MIB can make that call.
The Scouts either
- Don’t offer MMA and so don’t have the same issues we do or
- Are giving rather poor advice to their membership which could land people in the brown smelly in the future
I do like the idea of a head office that is largely ineffective, obviously not needed if we have to do the donkey work. If I contacted our head office and they said do it yourself as we can’t be bothered, I’d be having a word with the HoD. No point in the air cadets as our HoDs are either like us or just puppets.
MMA is not an issue for us as the flat 25ppm we get is well below the HMRC thresholds of 45ppm for the first 10000 miles and 25ppm thereafter.
The fly in the ointment is HQAC / MoD giving us “pay” (if you are an adult who wears a uniform and do 8 hours with more than 4 hours on site), which is subject to tax and NI and insisting we are not employees. This seems to affect everyone including those not entitled to “pay”, cadets and CIs alike and are all tarred with the same brush.
There is no real need for business insurance as per the list provided. This was something invented by the clowns in the MoD / HQAC as it was easier for them, rather than doing any real and or proper work on the subject.
‘Job of work’ not a job. There’s a subtle difference.
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I would suggest it’s different because the RAFAC are asking that cadet to take other cadets to the activity. This is where the organisation is suggesting the drivers policy may need business use cover?
It matters not that the driver is a cadet. The driver and the person asking for the journey to be done on behalf of RAFAC are responsible for ensuring they have the correct cover in place.
Well quite. I was rather disappointed when I woke up this morning and realised that no one who from HQAC had made me breakfast.
Which makes what difference to insurance exactly?
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It still wouldn’t be classed as a job of work. The cadet is still a “customer” of the “business”. It could only be a “job of work” for those who come under the banner of “staff” (“employee”). The cadet is attending a leisure activity. They can transport others to that activity without additional insurance cover.
Staff on the other hand are the activity provider, which is where transporting cadets to the activity starts to come under the whole business and volunteering thing.
If he’s a staff cadet, authorised to supervise cadets by the OC then he does come under the staff banner.
It’s what the insurance company stipulate for the driver that is important. If they say he needs business use then he needs it.
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We have probably 8 people sucking over £1 million from the public purse in salary and associated costs, 2 or 3 of them could do something more useful, like for instance clearing up this insurance mess and why exactly we get taxed & NI’d like an employee and get treated like an employee, when we are told we aren’t employed
Income tax I’m ok with as it’s additional income.
NI less so as that is a tax on employment 
Do we actually pay NI on VA?
Yet something is better than nothing and I’ll take what’s offered