W3W has its niche; as far as I’m concerned; that’s providing addresses for remote locations where an address doesn’t exist.
It’s wholly unsuitable for expedition use with our cadets.
And just awkward location too, that have one address that when you stick it in a sat-nav goes to the wrong place.
1 Like
Not if you’re having to spell out each word. Then it’s substantially longer.
Many people don’t know that the Compass app (which is pre install ed) on iOS provides coordinates which can just be typed straight into google maps.
Coordinates have worked fine for for decades…
3 Likes
Perhaps, but quicker than downloading an OS map, or app, working out the grid ref and passing it on. And at least you know it’s right.
Having seen cadets navigate, I’d rather they use something which is telling them the answer than relying wholly on them getting it right.
I’m not sure those really complement each other, but I’m going to leave it at this and tap out for a bit:
It’s an available tool, it is one of many, each have their benefits and drawbacks, some people will have a personal preference.
There is no harm in explaining the options and how to use them, when they might be useful, in order to prepare cadets as best as possible for as many scenarios as we can/give them the choice of methods to find their preference.
5 Likes
Downloading W3W to get their word is no quicker/longer than downloading OS Locate.
This!
1 Like
If you live in a country where there is no maps, no address, no postcode, then it’s a good option.
However we live in a country that has good mapping, so why are we using a system that doesn’t work with those maps?
Exactly, only difference is a grid reference providing to staff or Mountain rescue can be looked up on a map and a route planned. W3W can be typed into an app and review as a dot on a field of green - like this:
Which is zero use to anyone.
1 Like
Recently I’ve seen a concerning trend of people directing cadets to use What 3 Words in an emergency during expeditions.
For those of you who are unaware of What 3 Words, it is a relatively new app for providing a location, based on a worldwide grid system. Each 3x3 square in the What 3 Words (W3W) grid is assigned 3 words, and this is the reference for that 3x3 square.
For example, the W3W reference Menswear.Subsets.Nozzle, is an area close to Snowdon summit.
So what’s the issue with using W3W?
The issues are 3 fold;
Firstly, if a cadet was injured and the group provided a W3W reference to staff, this reference is largely useless. A W3W reference can’t be viewed on an OS map, so how would the staff work out a route to the cadets? A W3W reference is show on a simple strip down Google Map interface, which is zero use in working out how to get to a group, and provides no information about their surroundings. For example, Bulbs.Talkative.Alpha is a location close to Glyder Fawr, the map on the W3W app for that location is as per the picture below. This issue is replicated within rescue teams.
Secondly, there have been multiple instances of W3W providing an incorrect location – by a large amount. This would delay help getting to the location. Here is a few examples of W3W words failing (there are plenty more):
Thirdly, W3W references are very difficult to understand and write down when compared to Grid References. You might well think the opposite, but we train out cadets in how to pronounce numbers over poor quality signal, but saying a bizzare W3W reference via poor signal would be difficult, particularly if the words are odd, for example; Amps.Umbrella.Spoiled (Glyder Fawr Summit, North Wales) could easily be mistaken for Lamps.Umbrella.Spoiled (Blyth, Nottinghamshire) or Amps.Umbrella.Soiled (Nuffield, Oxfordshire). It is a confusing and difficult to understand system, with plenty of room for error.
Ultimately there has NEVER been a problem with grid references, so why are alternatives being sought?
Anyone else think there is literally no point to it?
2 Likes
Yeap. I’m using it as a tool - alongside other options.
I also teach it to AT groups. Alongside it’s strengths and weaknesses from which they can make up their own mind of what works to do the job they need it to do.
Would I use it in an AT context? Yes - and have already done so - but I invoked some simple checks: ensuring that the place W3Ws thought I was matched where I thought I was. Then I checked with the other party to ensure we were both talking about exactly the same location.
In an emergency? It is, again, a tool. For as many “bad” messages I hear about W3Ws on grough etc, I also know there have been good news stories which have lead to positive results and outcomes - but they don’t make the papers for that.
I wouldn’t, however, say it’s wholly unsuitable for cadet use. Its only as problematic as a cadet giving an incorrect grid reference, a staff member making an incorrect notation under pressure, or a flat phone battery on OS locate.
1 Like
You already answered that. Because W3W did a better job of selling their product and more people have it. I hadn’t even heard of OS locate before this debate.
I’ve merged the topic with the one that already existed.
1 Like
OS locate is a good tool for your cadets - even has a built in compass which is a useful visual aid.
1 Like
From an actual out in the field point of view, number one should be making sure anyone you’re sending out can give you a location without any apps at all!
I have only had one time when a student (it wasn’t cadet related) was in need of immediate medical help and they couldn’t give me a grid ref. I used SARLOC to get a location so I could yomp over/sort out emergency service etc etc. The second I heard medical emergency and they were unsure where they are I text a SARLOC ping to 4 members of the team and had 4 responses almost immediately!
Had they called and given me a W3W code that would have also worked. As would have a google maps location pin, a grid ref or a plus code. I suppose one of the things about being a supervisor is keeping up to date on the different tech available, so when a group member calls you up and has an emergency you can help is as many ways as possible.
1 Like
From a professional point of view every laptop, tablet and phone at work has W3W preinstalled, none of them have OS Maps.
I wouldn’t teach my Cadets to use it as their only option in an emergency, I would be telling them to have both prepared and they can then give the operator whichever they want.
2 Likes
Ok, let’s have a go at using the OS system to do the same jobs.
I open OS locate and it gives me purely my location in 6 figures. So, I get at best, a 100m search area. I don’t have a map in that app, so I have nothing beyond the figures. It has a button to take me to OS maps, which I click on.
But the mapping app, (which I then had to download separately) doesn’t link to OS locate, so I then have to type in the GR OSLocate gave me into OSMapping
Except, the GR doesn’t translate into OS Mapping. I clearly have to add more figures into the GR, but there is no guide as to how, so, using only the two apps, I still don’t know how to convert the information from one, to the other. And even then, I’m only using the free map OS provides to non-subscribers
OSLocate is therefore only good to me if I have the same map as the person who is sending me the GR.
Compared to all of that, W3W, may not have the same mapping quality, but I can more easily use the location data, coupled with the map it does provide, with either Google Maps, or Bing Maps, (which does have OS layering included, for free,) to locate where that person is.
Edit: I got the search to work but it isn’t as accurate. The free map doesn’t have a grid on it, so I can’t tell on the app alone where the location is.
1 Like
But that’s the point isn’t it. If you were on expedition you would always have that map.
Cadet rings, says they have a drama and gives you a W3W reference. You look blankly into space since you know this is useless in determining where they are. Your naff W3W app map shows you a green square.
Cadet rings, says they have a drama and gives you a grid reference. You look at your OS map that you would always have with you on an expedition, and determine exactly where they are. Grab your bag and start walking up the footpath your OS map says leads to your group.
This is the difference isn’t it, cadets providing grid reference helps you, and helps mountain rescue teams. Providing a W3W reference creates confusion and delay.
1 Like
I would use both if I could. I can use OS to get close, but in an emergency, and in low via, 100m is useless. Whereas a 3Word gets me to them directly. Once I’m close, I can use the W3W direction function to zero in.
And that pic is using a 10 fig GR, the cadets can’t navigate to that accuracy with just maps or apps they may have on their phone. I only have that on my Ambit2.