That doesn’t really support their “available offline” selling point though, does it?
I struggle to understand why people are fighting to justify this commercial app and its attempts at solving a non-existent problem using its niche solution.
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I like it personally, its simple for your average layperson who can use a phone, especially if the emergency services are getting on board with it.
But then the reason the emergency services are getting in on it is because the people who made W3W are backed by multi billionaire funders who are trying to make it the global standard so they can make money.
OS dont have the financial backing to go at it like W3W are doing, im not surprised if W3W are going in to the Police HQ’s with piles of cash to get them to adopt it thus making it the go to platform that everyone will get and use.
One thing I would say is that the emergency services really do need some means of attending non-address locations.
I’ve been in a situation where it took an ambulance crew around half an hour (from arriving in the general locale) to locate my casualty, despite the fact that I knew exactly where I was and communicated that fact via both an OS grid reference and directions from a named street.
Ambulance crews really need fitness standards too, but that’s another matter entirely.
No, no, no. Please stop.
We are NOT Joe Public. We all know how to use map, compass and grid references. (And if you don’t then 1) hang your head in shame and 2) go and re-do your 1st class training.)
W3w is NOT adopted by all police forces.
It is NOT more ‘accurate’ (I think you mean ‘precise’) than a grid ref.
TL123456 identifies a 10m square (and the emergency services should be able to find you from that 
)
TL12394568 identifies a 1m square
///achieving.shoets.orders identifies a 3m square.
W3w is ambiguous, in that it relies on the person you are giving the location to being able to spell and not getting confused by accents or similar-sounding words.
///achieving.shorts.orders is in London
///achieving.short.orders is in Michigan, USA
///achieve.short.order is in Alaska, USA
There are plenty of grid ref systems to choose from: NGR, Lat Lon, or even Maidenhead Locator.
I recommend the ‘Coordinates’ app on iPhone (see myice92.com - android version common soon) if you want anything other than long lat. And yes, it does W3w.
Agree with most of your post, but your figures on grid references are out by an order of magnitude. The first two figures of an easting or northing (along with the letters) give you a kilometre grid square, the third a 100m division and the fourth a 10m square.
So a 6-figure grid ref is precise to 100m and an 8-figure is precise to 10m.
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Recently I’ve seen a concerning trend of people directing cadets to use What 3 Words in an emergency during expeditions.
For those of you who are unaware of What 3 Words, it is a relatively new app for providing a location, based on a worldwide grid system. Each 3x3 square in the What 3 Words (W3W) grid is assigned 3 words, and this is the reference for that 3x3 square.
For example, the W3W reference Menswear.Subsets.Nozzle, is an area close to Snowdon summit.
So what’s the issue with using W3W?
The issues are 3 fold;
Firstly, if a cadet was injured and the group provided a W3W reference to staff, this reference is largely useless. A W3W reference can’t be viewed on an OS map, so how would the staff work out a route to the cadets? A W3W reference is show on a simple strip down Google Map interface, which is zero use in working out how to get to a group, and provides no information about their surroundings. For example, Bulbs.Talkative.Alpha is a location close to Glyder Fawr, the map on the W3W app for that location is as per the picture below. This issue is replicated within rescue teams.
Secondly, there have been multiple instances of W3W providing an incorrect location – by a large amount. This would delay help getting to the location. Here is a few examples of W3W words failing (there are plenty more):
Thirdly, W3W references are very difficult to understand and write down when compared to Grid References. You might well think the opposite, but we train out cadets in how to pronounce numbers over poor quality signal, but saying a bizzare W3W reference via poor signal would be difficult, particularly if the words are odd, for example; Amps.Umbrella.Spoiled (Glyder Fawr Summit, North Wales) could easily be mistaken for Lamps.Umbrella.Spoiled (Blyth, Nottinghamshire) or Amps.Umbrella.Soiled (Nuffield, Oxfordshire). It is a confusing and difficult to understand system, with plenty of room for error.
Ultimately there has NEVER been a problem with grid references, so why are alternatives being sought?
Anyone else think there is literally no point to it?
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Because the Emergency services use it and have access to considerably better mapping? And they don’t use OS.
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That’s not true though is it?
Some emergency services have been forced into buying it, not all.
At work we had a girl collapse, a colleague called an Ambo, didn’t know the address so used W3W, call handler didn’t have a clue.
Also mountain rescue teams don’t use it - I’m sure the odd one may have purchased the extortionately expensive software to use it, but generally not.
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Also, if you’d like to be picky, they do use OS, just not commercially available scales.
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W3W Certainly has it’s place. But there are other/better services to use or ways of achieving the same outcome. The increased use within the emergency services is mainly because of their exhaustive and directive advertising campaign they’ve been going on to show how great it is.
It’s very useful for if you’re at a festival and want to try and find a mate when you’ve got lost. But It’s not very useful in the mountains, or so I’ve found, compared to say OS locate.
Another example of something more effective would be SARLOC. SARLOC is now widely used by mountain rescue as it has the inherent advantage of the person who is lost not needing to already have an app downloaded to their phone. From the rescuers point of view, they just send a text with a link and the person who is lost clicks the link which then activates the phones GPS via the browser. This is then sent back to the rescuer.
SARLOC is now also available for DofE use more widely. I had spoken with Russ the creator in the past about the system and was pretty impressed, this was before he released the DofE version. I had a play around with it, and have used it in anger once to locate a DofE group.
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Spot on. SARLOC is excellent AND available to DofE groups too as you say.
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This isn’t an “either/or” situation though is it.
We train cadets to use OS maps, staff in the area will have OS maps. Cadets will be asked for the OS reference.
If a cadet needs to call for the emergency services, they retain the choice of giving address/road name, OS reference, GPS lat/long, or whatever is available or necessary according to the prompt.
Call handler: “Can you tell me your location?”
Cadet: “I can give you a grid reference or W3W, what would you like?”
If that cadet ONLY had GR available, and the call handler couldn’t accept it, what then?
W3W was discussed in a bit of detail here:
To add to that:
…is wrong. There is an option to view satellite and navigation is available. You can open the reference in Google and see all of the imaging and data that they have.
Just like OS Locate, or a map, it’s simply another tool to achieve an outcome.
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But OS is useless for the majority of the population, if there’s a system which works to that level of accuracy everywhere, it’s a good system, and the emergency services should be using it.
Where I live, the old railway track turned cycle path is a crime hotspot, but the police struggle to find people when they call because there are no distinguishing features beyond the entrances onto the path and bridges. W3W used on both sides just works.
It is not. Satellite view is zero use in mountainous areas, unless you can see contours, paths, and other detailed info the map is useless.
Also control centres all accept Grids and Lat / Long so there would never be a situation of not being able to accept a Grid Ref / Lat and Long.
W3W pushed out an aggressive marketing campaign which convinced people it was a must have, and emergency services are now spending chunks of their already stretched budgets to purchase software integration to respond to increasing numbers of people providing W3W locations.
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This is one of the key things. Nothing is wrong with W3W. But the only reason it’s now being widely used is because of their advertising. If OS had pushed the same with their OS Locate app or similar, they would have got that market.
The issue we have is just going from W3W code -> Grid Ref. That can be done in a pinch as you can open the location in google maps, which give you the lat/long, which you can then use in memory map/osmaps/view ranger to get it onto OS maps.
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We are talking here about W3W in an AT / expedition context, not local bobbies hunting for scumbags though aren’t we?
But to explore your option, in theory someone could get on their app (if they were in the right place), get a reference, read it out over the phone to call handler who would then relay to officer on ground who would then type the words into their app and get a location. But at each stage it relies on a clear connection to accurately write and spell the 3 words (some of which are reasonably complex and open to spelling errors), more room for error there than a grid reference.
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Also, to add, google have their own built-in version of W3W that they’ve always had called ‘Plus Codes’. Works in a similar way.
But the majority of the population just flat out don’t know how to use GR, nor do they have OS mapping on their phones.
And this is a cycle path through a major city, it has great connection, but is otherwise isolated.
And I see you also are talking about passing on the words, easier to pass three words than 8 figures. (And for a railway path in a built up area, you need 8, not 6, even most good cadets can’t do 8.)
I’ve started to use W3W alongside a location description for a Drop Off / Pick Up location for activities now that it’s not a case of get dropped at the sqn and jump in the bus.
No idea if the cadets have used but I’m using it as an extra.
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I think for this use W3W is great! But again, it’s one of many.
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