CI "Membership Cards"


#61

FYI neither do “civilians”.
be it the people standing outside Tesco with a bucket and tray of poppies or those knocking on doors doing the rounds in the Village our branch do not issue cards to sellers/donation collectors.

There is no prerequisite to be a RBL member to be the task, although it is preferable - and the card has nothing more than the RBL logo, members name, membership number and the branch they are a member of…no photo.
At best the collection pots have the collector’s name, address and Branch collecting for written on the card - this could be left blank for them to fill in as they wish or may have been completed ahead of time by the Branch Poppy Appeal Organiser (PAO).

When I have been collecting for the RBL (with my RBL hat on - not as part of ACO duties) I certainly haven’t been given anything more than this - if at all, so your concern is your own paranoia rather than a request to be equal given you already are…

The same can be said for RAFA…


#62

Again, the point is missed. I am not collecting, but supervising children who are collecting, or on a parade night supervising children who are under my control.

I can see that if there are uniformed staff available and present, then there is little need (although it would be nice to think that the organisation thinks enough of us to acknowledge our presence).


#63

I think you miss the point by quite a wide margin. And your comment about planes was like chalk and cheese.

In the hugely unlikely situation someone asks for your ID, just tell them they don’t have the required security clearance to see it. That usually bamboozles them. And remember, in the UK, there is no legal requirement to carry or own identification. If they press you, give them the duty officers number at Cranwell or your Wing commanders mobile and Home number.


#64

What exactly is your objection to CIs being given some form of identity?

I am not sure that phoning someone at Cranwell is really a good way to confirm identity, all it could really do is confirm that someone with my name is part of the ACO. Every tried to contact the Wing Commander on Saturday afternoon?

My comment about aeroplanes was say that just because it hasn’t happened to you personally doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Very poor evidence to only quote your own experience of something not happening.

As for the proposed card being easy to forge, I am sure it wouldn’t take me long to make a MOD90 that would get me through the gate of most RAF Stations.


#65

In an ideal world we want something that does both. It needs to prove membership of an organisation (if for no other use than to make CIs feel like they’re part of us) and it needs to show guardrooms that the person should be allowed access.

If one of my staff (who is a CI) has his own pass which allows him access to stations for work (and he services machines in the messes) there is no reason CIs can’t have a card that grants them similar.


#66

I’m not opposed, it’s just your rationale which is poor


#67

call me a bluff old conservative if you will, but when a big, rough man carrying a rifle (or member of the RAF…) asks me for some identification, i like to be able to show him/her some…

are you actually a member of the ACO?


#68

If there is no reason then surely it would have been done by now. What you are telling us is hardly a revelation,

Therefore, there is some reason to prevent it. It may be cost (production, renewal, manpower), it may be some sort of vetting concern (or assumption) or something else - probably a smorgasbord of all of them.


#69

Ahh right I get you. You want to have something which shows you have the authority to be supervising those Cadets?
I offer you the example of the Scouts.
They have no ID even the kids go without a record book.

I am not against CIs having a ID card at all, but struggle to find sympathy in the example you offer.
If your sole justification/reasoning for a ID was based on being “authourised” to supervise Cadets I find it difficult to get behind the cause.

CIs are issued branded clothing (a uniform in effect) – I would have thought that is enough?


#70

Surely a temporary base pass would do the trick! If it a red one, the escort with you will vouch for you.
To get said pass, go to the guardroom and present a drivers license or passport and some form of proof or entitlement…


#71

[quote=“incubus, post:70, topic:3488”]… and some form of proof or entitlement…
[/quote]

thats the problem…

the lack of something ‘MOD90-like’ also means that when i eventually do get a temporary base pass, its escorted. given that at least half the time i’m there on the scrounge during normal working hours i don’t have anyone else with me, i then have to ask the people i’m scrounging off to come down to the GR and pick me up.

this limits my scrounging ability, which means the cadets get less stuff.

the whole thing just pees me off, it wastes my time and the time of people who i need to help my cadets get stuff and experiences.


#72

My understanding was that this new membership card would validate the individual to the point where they could be issued an unescorted pass.

In reality I expect that to be at the whim of the egos at a particular guard room as ever.


#73

a copy of SC/CTC clearance will do this for you.

Ok so those without any interest in shooting will have SC/CTC but for those who do they can be issued an non-escorted pass on the basis they have been “cleared”.

Given this is the case I am lost what the Membership card offers over CTC clearance letter?
It should be easier to apply for, yet it does need a photo so has that added effort to it.
As the card is not a form of ID a drivers licence or passport will still be required so it doesn’t really save much


#74

As a CI I had a scrap of paper and that was more than OK, which I always found really bizarre. I showed these to hairy bottomed individuals with guns and or dogs and lived to tell the tale.
We could all be given a piece of paper on renewal stamped etc to keep some CS in a job and do away with ID cards altogether, which are a pita to get done as per my previous post. We all have the same and they are cheap and easy to produce. They would be time bound, ie expires on date 5 years hence and the gate people would know all about them, so no problems getting around.


#75

With what’s going on in the world and current security states it’s not going to get any easier for anybody without official sponsored ID to get into any military establishment.
One of the issues with CI’s having MOD90 would be the cost and administration. The system can’t cope with issue/renewal of passes as it stands so adding to that could grind it all to a halt? Apart from lack/ shortage of staff at HQAC, unfortunately in the eyes of the MOD I would doubt the issue of passes to CI’s is high on their priority list?
A membership card is probably the best you’re going to get at the moment at a guess??


#76

Would it not be more accurate (and probably more polite) to say that you disagree with my rationale? I still think that it is reasonable for any organisation that makes me responsible for other people’s children to give me something that confirms that to anyone who asks.

The case for getting un-escorted passes on the strength of the new card is good, or do you object to that as well?


#77

So are uniformed staff, so do they not need MOD 90s?


#78

It’s very rare in uniform that I get asked to see my MOD90, especially on foot!


#79

LEts face it, it’s just so people can wear an ID around their neck whilst bag packing in Asda, and I include uniform people in that. They continue to do it as one station demands always wear and they think a Sqn is the same. My ID stays in my wallet unless I’m instructed to show or wear.


#80

I thought it was just me that had noticed that! I know of several officers who wear their MOD90 on “RAF Reserve” lanyards whilst in uniform. The worst ones will even wear it around our WHQ, even if in civvies. Mine stays in the wallet, unless asked as well. Having it out of the wallet just makes me more likely to lose it, and less likely to have it on me when trying to use the MOD discount!

I get the need for ‘belonging’, and I do think that CIs need a usable ID card, which is accepted by any and all MGRs. The card, as posted, just looks gash. I could create a more professional looking on-line, and it would be just a legitimate as the HQAC one!