I think that’s a fair point. Once again, we have a comms problem.
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My experience is that most grievances in this organisation always boil down to the reasoning not being explained
If it needs explaining that strong winds kill people, then the said people that need it explained shouldn’t be trusted with cadets. It is not difficult to understand it is simply people do not like being told what to do yet they are in a military based youth organisation canbyou see the irony.
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Yeah not that element, i think everyone gets that.
More the why national vs another approach
It’s the lack of clear reasoning. We all understand that these winds produce a risk to life. I’ve had these exact debates in the past when we had Nijmegen training booked on an amber warning day, and several of us had to argue the WRMO into cancelling. But in this instance we have a stop order outside the areas and times where the risk exists, with no differentiation between the type of activity being organised, why did an indoor course in Scotland on Sunday need to be cancelled for a wind warning in England on Friday?
It’s illogical, unexplained and demonstrates a lack of trust in us as staff to make safe decisions.
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As far as I know the wind warnings were at a national level, Amber also means risk to life
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I don’t blame any CCFs that have loopholed this if they weren’t affected by the weather. Not sure it’s fair to say that they don’t care about safety.
The argument is that it needs explaining why areas where there is no risk to life also had to stop. As usual, the organisation has (so far) refused to justify itself.
The original warnings, when decisions were made were only yellow for the North of England and Northern Ireland. Which does not justify stopping all training, of all varieties, two days later.
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I don’t think it’s that skewed - you’re not wrong. BUT frustrations can’t be bottled and HQAC can’t be let off with making decisions without consequence.
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You’re right… the management struggle to deal with CFAVs questioning them. They construe the questioning as moaning and belittling or being awkward.
When really we want to know why. Give us sensible justification and most would be happy. But then they should also expect people not to be happy when they don’t have a sensible excuse.
I would have hoped for a statement by the commandant by now but I have no doubt nothing of any substance will ever appear.
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That’s mainly because they treat us like subordinates in a non voluntary organisation.
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Massive issue in this organisation. There’s no concept of ‘volunteer management’, only ‘military command’.
I’ve said for a long time, that when managing volunteers, when you say “jump” the majority response will not be “how high” or just starting jumping, but “why?”. Those in leadership positions in this organisation (including those who rise the CFAV ranks) fail to prepare for this.
We’re not 5 and you’re not our mum; “because I said so” isn’t a valid response.
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Yep! It’s that disconnect I always bang on about.
Perm staff think volunteers work for them.
Volunteers think perm staff (should) work for them.
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An event being indoors or out is not relevant as you still have to travel to the event which is where the main risk could possibly be. Given that the UK weather is notoriously changeable imagine if the winds didn’t arrive until Sunday but RAFAC HQAC were all safely wrapped up in bed for the weekend how would a STOP be called. As it stands there will be alot of resources including the emergency services busy all weekend tidying up and making safe so it is understandable that a goverment run organisation calls a stop. If a stop wasn’t called and people got hurt then the arguement would be why didn’t the boss say stop. RAFAC may have used regional governance to make local decisions but the whole of UK were under either a red, Amber or both warning so I’m a single word SAFETY was the reason, very frustrating but arguements against it won’t change things. The best thing RAFAC CofC could do is permit flexibility and allow events to slip but with requirements to resubmit complete SMS applications. With an organisation our size there won’t be a 100% agreement on the new STOP system, we just have to toe the line and ride the storm
I remember when we had the commandant chat at OIC and I asked a question about obtaining greens from the RAF and she started giving me an answer which was basically a stock patronising response saying that we could perhaps obtain it from returned stock at stores. So, I cut her off, respectfully, to tell her that the information she was giving me was out of date, as I’d had a different response from BZN stores the week before informing me of the order that all used DPM was to be returned to depot, and could no longer be reissued to us.
This was clearly news to her, and she said she needed to look into it.
But the rest of my course we’re just amazed that I cut her off mid answer, and I was like, 'but she was talking crap?"
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OK can the ones who feel the right to circumnavigate the CofC predict the weather, and who says they have the right to ignore the STOP signal certainly not you and I
If we follow your approach to risk. We may as well all give up now and never leave the house again.
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Youre also fundamentally wrong in your underlying evidence base. The whole country was NOT under an amber or red warning when the stop was called. Large areas were under yellow, and Scotland not under that.
I provided you with that evidence, but you clearly chose to ignore it.
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I do understand your point, I still don’t understand why we can’t do AT between 1 Oct and 1 Apr as in theory we could have snow in June but are allowed out, and a warm spell in October and confined to barracks. A Risked based approached should work but I do appreciate that there is a thing of being too risk adverse. My thoughts are assess the risk, manage the hazards. Hopefull storm stops will be rare and we can all get out to play. My main point on these discussions is that people cannot chose what command orders to obey or disobey and certainly can’t pick and chose what regulations apply. Its strange that CCF members don’t want to recognise RAFAC orders but are members of an air cadet forum.
Sorry I disagree the map I saw on met office app had whole country in Amber a basically south east England in red albeit between different times.