Maybe let’s not bring up the deaths of people in aviation accidents to make a point. We can do that without causing those families more trauma.
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Also, these are things that @Cab hasn’t shied away from referencing:
In the context being discussed, I’d be more interested in the comparison to BGA and ATO/DTO sites’ flights undertaken by qualified and approved instructors than our current performance to historical.
Does any of this add to the conversation we are having at the moment? No.
What we need to do is work out how risk management should be an enabler and not a blocker to activates. CFAVs have always worked with the risk of bringing young people into challenging and demanding situations that grow our cadets into robust and capable young people. Much of this is new to the CoC of RAFAC where DDH is a new thing. There is a lot to learn on both sides regarding risk and communicating how this risk is managed.
I will use the analogy of abseiling to demonstrate the difference of risk and fear of risk. Abseiling is a very safe activity with and abseil rope and a safety rope, multiple anchor points and a properly trained and authorised staff and kit which checked and in date. This doesn’t stop this activity being challenging for the cadets. Now look at the risk management of this activity. An experience climber will see a fun and safe activity. A lay person with no experience of climbing or ropework will see a very big cliff and the splat at the bottom.
Risk mgt is all monitoring from above and trust in safe delivery. We do not build better cadets and as a result better service personnel by the exclusion of risk or perceived risk.
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The point was that the AOC made was that the RAF have a safety culture, I was just pointing out that this hasn’t until recent years has always been the case so any improvement is welcome.
But your examples were historic and lessons have been learnt, so please take the advice given above move on
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About 10 years ago, I worked for a company that held an Air Operator’s Certificate (AOC), mainly doing rotary utility work.
We had a new safety manager start with us who had every course and certificate under the sun. He was keen to point out the 100% safety record he had grown in all of his previous jobs.
6 months into the job and people started to notice that he was just saying no to everything that was being placed in front of him. He basically turned up for work, said no no no no, took his wage and then went home.
Around the 1 year point, alarm bells were starting to ring. The amount of work the company had carried out after the safety managers input/rubber stamping had fallen dramatically. We were no longer even doing the jobs we had been doing safely for the last 15 years. The company was dying on its a7se!
A conversation about the balance between opportunity and risk followed, during which the safety manager continually alluded to the fact that the safest way to do something risky, was not to do it in the first place. He was sacked a month later.
The RAFAC is giving me Deja vu at the moment!
I was a FSO in the RAF, FSO in my first commercial airline & fleet safety rep in my previous airline, both airlines ran world-wide operations.
There doesn’t seem to be enough cotton wool for RAFAC to be comfortable with ALARP risk…
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Have you seen this thread? Its a better place for info on ACPS.
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Here here.
No need for it indeed
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Beyond disappointing to read in Weekly Brief No63 that the annual allocation of places on ACPS will drop from 200, when it was outsourced to Tayside Aviation, to a meager 40 places now it has been brought ‘in house’.
Only 0.07% of cadets will get a place on this scholarship!
Damn, I thought the minimum starting number was 50, and we were going to work upwards from there, per the long FOI. Sad to hear it’s only 40.
Sadly, I’m not surprised. It’s why RAFAC (@Cab) should be looking at ways to augment this meagre allocation. Clearly, there’s not enough resources to divert Tutors hrs even more from the existing use (UAS / AEF, etc), so let’s look at scholarships / bursaries - use the due diligence / duty of care protocols alrwady in use by the Hon Company of Air Pilots / Air League - & work from there. If OC2FTS can be linked within Air Pilots to allocate civvie scholarships / bursaries, then that already shows acceptance of the protocols.
Looking at 40 ACPS awards versus 150(?) that used to be flown annually at Tayside, there has to be some money left in the pot.
Same argument (due diligence / duty of care protocols) for allowing flights in non-Service aircraft - let’s look at all options to get cadets flying & instill that “wow” factor that’s very much missing at the moment.
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And here I was thinking I was so horribly wrong to ask “where are the extra flying hours going to come from”… I know I perhaps was overly harsh when I said this:
But I feel like I might’ve made this point a good couple of months ago!
But rather that just slate the good sir, it’s clear we need to think about how to get more hours available for cadets, be it Military Flying or not.
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So we’ve now had an update regarding selection processes for GS and ACPS,
I feel like the ACPS application wording doesn’t now quite align with the whole “The Air Cadets is not a recruiting organisation, and cadets will not be expected to join the military or face any pressure to do so.”
Your ambition to join the RAF is now one of the 3 4** main things you are assessed on during your application. Specifically favouring those with pilot/aircrew ambitions within the RAF.
I get it, we are the RAF Air Cadets. But we should be offering every activity we do irrespective and without prejudice of a cadets’ ambition on join the RAF when they leave.
This doesn’t sit right with me. Eh, maybe I’m wrong here, but just wanted to highlight this as it feels like a bit of a ‘shift’ in our fundamentals.
** The list goes 1, 2, 2, 3.
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I think the reason for the favourability to RAF applicants could have to do with them learning the RAF’s Top secret numbering system to hide things from the russians
simply hide top secret info as a number thats already been used Genius
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TBF it’s the same system used to number squadrons and confuse the enemy…
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Too true.
Anyway, regardless of planned career choice, all a cadet will do is state that they have always wanted to join the RAF as a pilot / WSO…
Wouldn’t they join RAFAC rather than RAF to be a Wing Staff Officer?
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Apologies, i never clicked the link until today, so it may have changed in the last 24+ hours since posted but…
that link now directs to IBN 031-2024 and within that:
- the number system you mention i cannot find, only bullet points.
- There does not look to be any ambition to join the RAF within the IBN
(although note in the FAQs on page 3, the last question does suggest that candidates interested in being an RAF pilot will be given priority (“more likely to be offered”)
have i missed something?
All the IBN says regarding the RAF is
- RAFAC aims to support the RAF’s ambition to ‘engage, inspire and attract’ suitable quality candidates for its profession
I read this as the RAFAC is following the RAF’s selection ethos by selecting the “quality candidates” for its most attractive opportunity (for the RAF being a Pilot, for the RAFAC, getting a flying scholarship)
- will be configured to signpost our brightest and best air cadets towards the RAF
Those candidates who do well will be pointed towards an AFCO with a recommendation to join the RAF as a pilot.
Has this been edited since @JoeBloggs first highlighted these concerns that the RAFAC was almost a recruitment process?
another point i notice:
- there is a need to ensure standardisation of the selection process for the GS and aviation opportunities…
- The selection process will be consistent within each Region
All good so far…
- a more pragmatic and discretionary approach might be required to ensure that training opportunities are not missed
while there are hopes to create a standard and consistent approach nationally to how candidates are selected, this last bullet point does act as a (massive imo) disclaimer that those who conduct the selection process still have the ability to use their own discretion