I guess that I’m lucky to have 2 gliding clubs within 15 miles of my home, both with youth sections. My previous Sqn is located on the same former RAF Station as one of these gliding clubs, which offers their own ‘gliding scholarships’ to youths from the towns secondary school. More cadets have been gliding via that route than via the cadet set up…
Two years ago we had 8 cadets on squadron with their blue wings from 1 flight in a Tutor, and embarrassingly, 4 cadets with ‘C’ wings from flying solo at a civvy gliding club. All 4 had in excess of 90 launches!
That’s 8 flights courtesy of RAFAC, and 360 flights from going elsewhere!
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its a sad indictment of the system that we volunteer in.
90 launches each to go solo …thats the other issue with the BGA system!
…generally they will get less flying per day than a GS Student …so take longer to Solo, not sure what the average length of time is these days for a VGS Solo, but back in my day (Vikings) was probably 30 - 40 ish during a week course and probably 40 - 60 for a weekend student.
Do BGA clubs have accommodation - along with suitable adult supervision etc and messing …I doubt it (but then again, my VGS was very lucky in that department)…
…you are very rarely comparing oranges for oranges when debating VGS vs BGA!
[quote=“jellybean, post:17, topic:773”]
Do BGA clubs have accommodation
[/quote]Do BGA clubs have accommodation?
Some do, such as Cambridge Gliding Centre including a members’ kitchen.
However, there are many more BGA locations compared to VGS sites - & if a comparable scheme to ACTO35 could be progressed, then certainly as far as our sqn would be concerned, transport would be coordinated.
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@Cab Sir, do you have any views on why RAFAC gliding is 8 times as expensive as the gliding that ACF, SCC, Air Scouts and Scouts do?
So your view is that we should disband the VGSs? You don’t see any benefits of having a Service-led approach to Cadet gliding? Feels like focusing on finances is only a part of any reasoned argument. (This is not AOC agreement to the financial data BTW).
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I dont think anyone is suggesting disband the VGS’s, but the capacity and the “higher” costs associated with a VGS could be streamlined for cadets on a GS - so that they can be taught the service way of doing things during the GS.
Then use the “cheaper” and more accessible BGA sites for Experience flights to increase the numbers of cadets who get a taster of flight.
That also leaves more capacity for the VGS to focus on GS and AGS.
The same could go for current plans for ACPS (if costs are similarly inflated), use the Tutors and the UAS instructors for the Scholarships and look for using local CAA ATO/DTOs for experience flights. This frees up availability for ACPS and increases experience flights availability and access.
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Would you not do it the other way round similar to how the flying scholarships were with Tayside?
Have the volunteers at VGSs do the GICs/AEGs so cadets are introduced to gliding through the military way and have your gliding scholarships done through the civvy route.
That way you can more cadets through in the good weather summer months, the gliding scholarship lot learn more about the intricacies of gliding from those who do it regularly.
The precedent we have is radio & shooting. Cadets learn the military way for Radio or target shooting and then at the more advanced level get involved in the civvy side by getting their Radio license or joining a civilian rifle club.
I know very little bout the specific regulations round flying & gliding but how easy is it to convert civilian gliding wings over to military?
Just out of interest, what’s the difference between a service led approach to gliding and civilian gliding clubs?
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The service led approach, (which is apparently safer), sends cadets solo after a fraction of what is required from the BGA syllabus before a solo!
One thing you also have to consider is that while it looks great on paper to get all these Cadets flying at civvy clubs …most clubs only have a few 2 seaters …they aim to get people into single seaters asap .
They will also have to cater for their own ‘paying members’ who want to glide!
By “a fraction” do you mean practically exactly the same without the spinning element?
Which would be ticky in the viking with its reluctance to do anything without whiskers fitted
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Also don’t recall having any requirement to complete any groundschool whatsoever at my BGA club before going solo that cadets cover in their GS. So if anything cadet cliding requires more.
So what’s the down side? 
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Whilst this is supposed to be about ACPS and is rapidly descending into a gliding thread.
To put it simply they couldn’t cope. Most clubs don’t have much extra capacity with their ‘paying members’ My club manages to squeeze in the air scouts about 3 times a year for no more than 4 kids at a time. The civvy system doesn’t have a massive available capacity to fill the gap. Coverage is also prodominitley in the south of England so doesn’t solve the issues in the north, Wales or Scotland where access will still be difficult for most.
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Regardless of the potential “uplift,” we don’t have the option to try for it = we’ll never know.
Cambridge Aero Club is right next door to our sqn & is a CAA-ATO - we would get a heavily discounted rate to get as many cadets as possible up in the air in C172 / C182. Many sqns would happily raise funds / seek local sponsorship for flying opportunities.
I really would like to know the full / documented safety reasons as to why UK ATOs / BGA facilities are not considered “safe” for cadet use. If there are any huge hurdles (I can’t see why there should be), then what mitigation could be applied to remove such hurdles. We should be working to expanding cadet flying across the board.
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Sir, cadets don’t give a monkey’s it if is service led or not, they just want to go gliding.
The current setup - service led VGSs - ‘aim to fly’ 5000 cadets a year. That’s 1 in 10 cadets getting a flight per year. Our squadron is not even getting this ratio BTW. Cadets can go the whole 7 years and not get a single glider flight. That is the grim reality.
If the cadet gliding budget - £3M according to Tony - was used in such a way that 40,000 cadets were getting a glider flight each and every year then it has to be seriously looked at.
It would be sad to see VGSs go and feel like the end of an era, but that’s what happened to the Vigilants!
The bottom line is that, with a tough decision, 8 times as many cadets will be flying in gliders for the same financial outlay. And that’s all they want to do.
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I tried to revive the ‘Cadet BGA Gliding’ thread. 
The danger is that currently the RAFs gliding delivery is through the VGSs.
If the VGS go then gliding as whole goes & it will never be returned or re-established.
Similar to when we lost the vigilants that capacity would never be restored, if VGS go then the RAF lose a whole capacity for an aspect of aviation that would need to be built up from scratch if it was ever needed again.