ACP20 Pers Form 1-19


You have to wonder what has gone wrong in youth organisations that this sort of clap trap is required?


I’m an ‘occasional helper’ with the Scouts - they aren’t the same as the ACO (ha! emphasis you branding freaks!) because there is a fundamental difference, a huge, gaping, yawning gulf between the two - in the Scouts I’m treated as a decent human being, one who very kindly gives his time to the organisation and the kids it serves. In the ACO I’m treated like a pathetic saddo with nothing else to do who the ACO very kindly allows to turn up, and it takes great pains to let me know that I should be grateful for its kindness and generosity.

Everything else stems from that attitude.


One of the next things after getting rid of all the non-signers, will they start a purge of “non Ayrians”.

One of the union reps at our work reckons we must have really incompetent management, if they have to resort to something like this. Plus if any squadron suffered as a result, they should all be sacked.


Hmm, my own experience and from discussions with others of my rough age, we’re quite different from that. Almost as if we come pre-cynicised through some other experience that we have that others don’t, like we can somehow recognise poor leadership and cow dung…


That’s your opinion and you’re welcome to it.

Maybe I could have worded it differently but I’m not sure that getting some satisfaction from seeing the kids on my squadron achieve means I’m only part of the organisation for self-gratification.

Take it as you will.


i didn’t say it was one or the other.
the primary reason will be personal enjoyment
the second reason, can be the achievement of others - which leads to personal enjoyment.


I spoke too soon! I have now been threatened!!

It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside when I am told if I don’t sign a one sided “agreement” that details everything I have to do for them in great detail, but is very vague in what they do for us, I will be thrown out of the organisation I have been part of since I was 13 years old.

Again how wonderfully the staff at the Coalface have been treated!!!


What but of the agreement did you not understand??

on your part… you will do as they say…

on their part… they will shaft you for as long as they can…

Again though, I firmly remember signing as an NCO then as an Officer documents that
I will abide by the rules laid down in the ACP’s.
So what is the problem that we now have to sign this abortion?


People on this thread, and othrrs, have said we should use the CoC to report up our misgivings on this and any other matter.

When this document first came to light, all of my CoC above me in my Wing agreed how pointless, ineffectual, badly written and morale destroying this “agreement” was and still is. Only my RC had a different opinion. So when you reach such an impasse, and the threats come from the RC in question, how are you meant to make your views known without being told to “put up and shut up”? This RC had told us all “that we were not, and never have been, part of the RAF” so it sticks even more when we are now told that it is a Military based organisation and we need to do as we are told!
Leaving is not an option for me, but I despise the management who force me into a corner to accept a deal that has little in it for me, my staff or my cadets.

Why does HQAC have to make us sign this? Don’t they realise, no matter what we are forced to sign, if this document does not look after our rights, it is worthless and invalid. I


F the Police!


Have to say its been coming … I’m in touch with lots of good Civcomm people who have had this sort of treatment since Auntie Dawn (although the previous incumbent was pretty poor also).

It is just getting around to the staff now and the concept of a volunteer organisation it ain’t.


When you look at this it shows just what a bunch of lacklustre individuals we have running the ATC.

First this should have been signed etc by 31 MAY 18. Now it’s September and it says do so by 30 SEP 18 or 14 OCT 18 (take your pick) if not by the latter you will suspended from 15 OCT.
Then it says “with a view to starting procedures to dismiss said individuals from the RAFAC, by raising admin reports on 15 OCT.” Surely dismissal in this instance is a letter and hit the delete button on SMS and whatever the other thing is.

So far we have THREE deadlines one gone and nothing happened ie people not kicked out and 2 to come with the same outcome I suspect. How many more deadlines? I fully expect another deadline beyond 14 OCT.
Why the extension of deadlines process, surely if someone hasn’t signed it by 14 OCT the absolute, last, absolute last deadline, perhaps, that’s the end of their time in the ATC. Not we’ll start dismissal procedures the following day.

Either they kick people out on 15 OCT or they don’t.

I signed this but at the last moment of first absolute deadline, just out of curiosity just to see what happens next and to then see how they go about dealing with the non-conformists out here.

Something HQAC etc need to understand is their silliness has no adverse bearing on our real lives, unless someone is done for something prosecuted in civil courts. So they get themselves in a knot about something that is largely meaningless to every single CFAV, I suppose it makes it look like they’re worth their money.


Well i said goodbye to my cadets and staff on Thursday night and handed in my ID card yesterday.It was really lovely and moving receiving the cards and gifts from cadets,parents and staff. Im not embarrassed to say I had a very big lump in my throat.
It reminded me why I joined all those years ago.However the well has been poisoned now by the commission debacle, VA Agreement endless admin crap,endless data protection breaches of personal information by HQAC(losses of forms).The list grows every day.
I will now be an interested observer to see if the promised “night of the long knives” comes to pass in October.


I don’t know if anyone else has said this, but thank you for all your service! All the plaudits from your cadets (the most important people in this Fred Carni’s Circus) must be well deserved.
I hope that this silly document is not the main reason for leaving.
I wish you luck in whatever else you choose to do!
Venture Adventure!!


As another outsider I will say thank you as well as I suspect those up above will not, but the most important ones recognised your work and dedication.


Absolutely. You don’t need faux thanks from someone who never knew you.

@1993 all the best.


The counterpoint to that is that if they’d just kicked out everyone who hadn’t signed by 31 May, then people would be angry about that too.


People wouldn’t but it would have given this scrap of paper some validity. As it stands it is all but meaningless.

But you can’t just keep on extending things.
If you don’t renew your road tax or MOT, they don’t say 3 months on you’ve got another 4 weeks and then we might stop you driving the vehicle in question.

What I don’t get is why not envoke a 90 day rule which we had done to us at work in 1989, where a group of us wouldn’t sign new contracts. People went over or left. But for 3 months it created chaos for pay roll.
The only thing is I’m not this would apply to volunteers.


They do increase the penalties though.

Are you saying that you’d rather they kicked out 10% (or whatever) of volunteers?


But you wouldn’t still be driving the vehicle and you get fined into the bargain.

No, however if had happened it would have demonstrated this has some validity, currently it’s akin to Chamberlain’s piece of paper.

As it is IMO if one person leaves or is removed for not signing, CAC, COS, all RCs and whoever else was behind this, should all get P60s, as they have failed. This and the CFC is tantamount to a tantrum, because they couldn’t get people to do what they want, they bring something in to make people do what they want. They know the vast majority will just roll over because of the impact on cadets, getting people who volunteer like we do to sign something with their arm up their back, actually or figuratively is not the way to do it and shows poor management.

As I have said it’s the next purge and then the next purge you have to think about, once this is done and dusted who or what next?. All the time losing those you’d rather not.
Listen to In The Flesh p2 from Pink Floyd’s The Wall … at some point everyone’s on a list
and Wish You Were Here’s “Welcome To The Machine” … “What did you dream? It’s alright, we told you what to dream” let’s you see where it’s heading.