ACP20 Pers Form 1-19


But they now have to follow through. This tone is exactly the same as used to get people to use SMS, by Barbara Cooper and look what happened to her.

Do you honestly think they’ve thought that far ahead? Or indeed just thought.
The management style these people practice would see them in sort of problems out here in the real world. They need to get their heads around they’re not in the RAF when dealing with us and trying to act like we are, primarily because we don’t rely on the ATC to pay the bills and as they keep saying we’re not employees. If so stop trying to treat us like we are.


Another reason for the Air Cadet Staff Federation!!

We have not been threatened yet, but I await a letter. I may use the “I sent it in but it must have got lost at Wing HQ” excuse as that is their excuse for lots of things!!

As stated many times in this thread, this is a diktat not an agreement. It demands requirements from CFAVs but has no commitments to support staff. It is a horrible document that should never have seen the light of day!


This is the same agreement almost word for word that they have made the ACF sign for many years. Not sure what the issue is with signing it. I initially challenged it and highlighted how rubbish it is to various RCs who all agree the legal people won the battle on the wording.

If you don’t want to sign it and abide by the rules then jack it in and join the scouts. The organisation will shrink and then those coming in will sign as a matter of the normal process to join and things will move on.

It’s a crap document that is a given and for all the shouts of don’t sign it and take them to court for unfair dismissal I suggest you do some work around volunteering and cases in the past. You would get thrown out of court as there is caselaw supporting the fact volunteers cannot do that.

As a note, my Region and Wings don’t allow attendance at any events if the document isn’t signed and uploaded against your SMS profile along with the other myriad of compliance stuff we should be meeting.


I did that earlier this year as im a shop steward and regional councillor. According to my unions legal dept taking it to tribunal a person could win especially if it involved someone who was financially disadvantaged .“Rise up I say you have nothing to lose but your admin burden”.As ive said earlier in this thread and others the fun has been stripped out of the corps and this latest garbage makes me doubly glad ive decided to pack it in .Tonight will be my last parade night and although i ll miss the interaction with the kids I wont miss the endless crap (and now threats) from these over promoted zobs.


When you put it like that it dose sum up how a lot of people feel about this wonderful organisation.


Well after tonight its all over for me.I ll say ttfn to my cadets and staff and go off and do something else.Other posters are probably right.Most people will sign this item and stay .Those who dont like me will leave .Young people nowadays dont understand how to stand up for themselves they are just like drones.I see it in my work.They are quite happy to be treat like crap as long as they can dress as a pirate on a Friday.A lot of the younger staff (and not so young) in the corps talk about their cadet "careers"nowadays.Well they can delude themselves all they want because its a hobby to me and one I used to enjoy.Its NOT the real Air Force either Ive done that and had a bloody good time too.


As a young person I’d like to think some of us can stand up for ourselves, we’ve just grown up in a wholly different environment to generations before us.

I for one have signed this agreement because ultimately I’m not in this for myself, I volunteer my time and effort to give the cadets on my squadron the very best experience I can.

I’m more than happy to fight my corner if I feel it necessary, I just don’t think this is the hill to die on for me.


:rofl: brilliant, I applaud you Sir.


There is an old saying ‘old age and treachery, will always triumph over youth and skill’. You are dealing with people of the former not the latter.


I am with you here. Coming in to the workforce during a financial crisis has meant that there are always 100s of people waiting to take your job. This means picking your battles until your feet are sufficiently under the table to start making waves.

Don’t mistake being tactical for a lack of backbone @1993.

I came into this eyes open and am 100% prepared to leave too if too much mickey is taken. Personally though I have not experience anything like the shift that my ATC colleagues have felt - presumably because the HQAC grip on me is substantially less or so it seems.


Career: an occupation undertaken for a significant period of a person’s life and with opportunities for progress.

I do think of it as a" career" in a sense. First and foremost, it is a hobby - you are correct - but it is a hobby that grants (primarily younger) volunteers access to personal development and can forge gateways to progression in the real world, in their actual careers.

I think it was Simon Sinek who made comment that a lot of the younger generation (actually, “millennials”) are seeking to incorporate a purpose to their life - in particular to their work. Being a CFAV can offer a lot of purpose and therefore motivation that often isn’t available at the lower rungs of the corporate world. And if by building a “Cadet Career” and viewing it as such you find an aspect of life missing elsewhere and maybe boost your actual career prospects external the organisation… Where’s the problem in that?


i call bull.
every time i hear this i am quizzical.

you are in it for yourself, no one is that selfless that they put the concerns of others ahead of their own - not in a voluntary youth organisation anyway.
you enjoy it, what every “it” is for you

  • being an OC and running a unit the way you want
  • being an instructor and seeing Cadets walk out the door at the end of the day having passed a WHT, first aid test or radio proficiency,
  • using your qualification you worked hard to achieve to permit activities to take place and seeing the Cadets get the most out of what you made happen.

yes i get it your in for the Cadets and their experience, but if that was your ultimate/fundamental reason for sticking with the organisation you imply you’d carry on even if you were unhappy and not enjoying the organisation anymore

[/off topic]


A motivational speaker and author.Perhaps the selfie Queen should sign him up to the RAFAC He could then go round giving motivational talks to doubting Sqn Commanders and staff who are sick of being treat like crap and try to talk them out of leaving.As to millenials I work with lots of them and whilst appreciating the jobs market is fluid these days.The way these people swallow the guff coming from senior management is quite amazing.The argument that theres loads of people wanting to do the job is tosh.My company has great difficulty in recruiting basically because the T and Cs have been changed so that the work force is now fragmented with four different contracts currently running all with different T and Cs .As long as people dont stand up for their rights in the workplace this will continue.As to RAFAC as other posters have said they are abysmal at handling complaints and ive had personal experience of it from being accused myself to having a colleague hung out to dry after several years.On both occasions the volunteer was treat with contempt.


I will stop assuming your experience if you stop assuming mine. They are clearly very different and give rise to different perspectives.

I think the point I and MRAR are trying to make is don’t generalise.

Back to the topic, I and my local CFAVs take the terms at a pinch of salt. We can leave when we like and do the duties that we can, when we like. No one is making us do anything we don’t want to.

The main concern I have with all this rhubarbing is that ultimately it will come down to a case of HQAC saying they will only cover expenses and do away with VA. Argument for employment gone.

None of these senior staff sit in ivory towers - you can communicate with them. Without blowing my anonymity I have engaged CoS on a couple of things and I am low on the totem. Approach with an actual workable plan, rather than just a whinge and you can get things done.

Beyond griping and moaning has anyone attempted to open a dialogue on this with those that pull the strings?


There is something on the VoV page about it.


In the discussions? I had a look but couldn’t see anything. Probably being blind!


I tell a lie, it’s on the new commission bit. There are several comments about it including one from a Wing Commander


Seen. If I read the right one, it seems like it was put to bed as it was in the wrong forum. Personally if I were the original poster I would have gone to my WC/RC and found if there were any objection to me promulgating my plan directly to HQ.

I saw that they claim our version is toned down from what ACF had used and that it was common practice in other orgs. Not this callsigns experience, but I wonder if anyone has actually found out if there is any basis to the comment around the scouts volunteer agreement as an example? Would be interesting to hold them side by side.


I had the ACF one sent to me and it is almost word for word the same. Not sure what was toned down.


Our company did a day with one of this self-obsessed idiots a number of years ago, we thought nob beforehand and he didn’t disappoint. We had to do mind-numbing “break out groups”, I’ve never been to the toilet so much. At least we got a good lunch and nice biscuits. The graduates were going round like puppies chasing a stick.

This would be waste of money, but at least we’d get a day’s remuneration.

Most of the ones we have at work start out like that and after a few months with us old cynics, their attitude becomes adjusted. We do get some who are a bit too eager.
My wife and I have ensured our kids are well adjusted. But then so are most of their mates.