You know what really grinds my gears? The Gears Strike Back

[JoeBloggs]

@Chief_Tech

So please let’s not assume that people who voted for Brexit were idiots, naive or racists.

I think many people, like your self and @JustCallMeFlight, are intelligent, and that you likely did consider wider information before coming to a conclusion. We may not agree politically, but I certainly don’t think any less of either of you! It’s nice being adults and not seeing eye to eye on everything, but still being able to debate and consider different view points.

But I know far, far too many more people who were just duped by what the Vote Leave campaign was saying. And in retrospect, they agree they were duped. I don’t think they’re idiots either, though; It’s that I think the Vote Leave campaign did a good job at campaigning. And much of the headline campaign points were absolute tosh.

[steve679]

@JoeBloggs

But I know far, far too many more people who were just duped by what the Vote Leave campaign was saying

this is shown by the immediate rise in racism chants in public at “non-whites” 24hrs after the vote.

I am not suggesting all those who voted “leave” are racist - but a significant number of racists did vote “leave” on the basis they believed (wrongly) it would deport people

[ArthurHarris]

@JoeBloggs

And much of the headline campaign points were absolute tosh.

This was equally true of the remain campaign: with the emergency budget that never happened, no sandwiches, super-gonorrhoea, etc.

[Chief_Tech]

@steve679

this is shown by the immediate rise in racism chants in public at “non-whites” 24hrs after the vote.

I think I remember saying to someone at the time. That that racism had always been there it’s just that the vote turned over the stone exposing those beliefs & showed that the majority of the anti-racism campaigns hadn’t dealt with the issue or promoted harmony but had just driven it underground into echo chambers.

Ironic really as the EU is far less ethnically diverse than the commonwealth so leaving should increase non-white immigration rather than decrease it.

[ArthurHarris]

Indeed, it was argued that an immigration policy that favoured Europeans was a racist endeavour.

[Chief_Tech]

@JustCallMeFlight

@JoeBloggs

And much of the headline campaign points were absolute tosh.

This was equally true of the remain campaign

They were both tosh - it was two groups/factions invested in grabbing more for their side than thinking about what would actually be best for people - their ideologies & egos came before care & development.

The day to day people who didn’t have investment portfolios or companies that would benefit were forgotten about & just expected to vote how they were told.

It’s that arrogance that undid the EU & remain, that arrogance on why the UK leaving hasn’t been the catalyst for both sides to gain & that arrogance on why the UK hasn’t progressed as much as it could.

Everyone’s trying to play chess when it’s more “Settlers of Catan”

[JoeBloggs]

Something I think we can probably all agree on.

[daws1159]

@Chief_Tech

I think I remember saying to someone at the time. That that racism had always been there it’s just that the vote turned over the stone exposing those beliefs & showed that the majority of the anti-racism campaigns hadn’t dealt with the issue or promoted harmony but had just driven it underground into echo chambers.

Part of the problem with any debate and discussion around racism in the UK is that it isn’t possible for their to be a sensible debate about any subject concerning race without shrieks of racism the moment someone says something critical or asks what might be a reasonable question. (Likewise if you say anything pro-immigration or diversity you have the other side clutching their pearls and screaming “won’t someone think of the children”.)

That drives moderates out of the mainstream conversation and as you say creates echo chambers where neither side has misconceptions challenged.

A great current example was that Notting Hill Carnival had to go begging central government for funding (despite already getting funding from the LA and the GLA), this sprung up the usual questions around safety.

Now everyone who works in crowd management, be that police officers, football safety officers, concert organisers knows how dangerous carnival is, the whole idea of that many people in that small a space would be laughed out of any sane SAG if you proposed it today.

But any criticism of the events safety is immediately dismissed as racism.

[steve679]

@Chief_Tech

That that racism had always been there

oh i agree
the result gave those people a belief of authority that they could be more vocal in their racism

edit to add: I say this as I recall one example being mentioned where someone non-white on the bus, going about their usual commute to work, travelling alongside the usual strangers known only by familiarity of taking the same bus journey 5 days a week suddenly came under sustained and continual verbal racist abuse the day after the result. their fellow passengers always had this view, but knew it wasn’t right to share it out loud, certainly not in the public setting of a service bus nor to the target of their abuse.
But this changed following the result as they felt/believed it gave them “permission” to act upon their racist views and hurl abuse.

[Baldrick]

GMG: RN PCS.

The trousers below are fresh out of the packet, they’ve been washed once, and ironed, without creases.
The very visible crease is purely from how they were folded in the packet, and how the line forms as soon as you fold it.

Honestly, I’d rather just iron in creases and make it look deliberate.

[ArthurHarris]

It like the opposite of PCS23, which are almost impossible to iron a crease into.

[Jimothy]

It’s not those weird pre-pressed creases then, like we get in blues trousers?

[Baldrick]

No, purely a fold line. The second hand uniforms which get crumpled look gopping as a result.

[anon86645716]

I voted leave after voting to stay in 1975 with the Wilson referendum. The Iron and Steel confederation morphed into the EEC, but then developed quasi statist ambitions to become a United States of Europe. The latter loudly pronounced by people like Verhofstadt and Tusk (now he’s PM of Poland, he’s changing his tune).
Papers released in the past couple of years proved Heath in 1973 lied to the British public as he was fully signed upto the present iteration of the eu of the future and beyond.

The eu at present doesn’t have a real defence component and is very USA dependent, but that is coming one day, but they will expect the French to use their strategic missile forces to defend them, I wonder whether they actually would sacrifice Paris for Berlin.

They have monetary union but no actual fiscal (something the German Constitutional Court will not allow) union as the nation states have their own treasuries but they have a single interest rate for 20 plus countries when the euro was predicated to support the German economy. Look at what happened to Greece and Ireland in 2008, commissioners from the ECB appeared and in effect took over both economies, that bad in Ireland that the UK lent them billions to maintain liquidity. The Dutch, Poles and Hungarians maintained their own currencies. If the UK ever tried to rejoin we would have to give up control of economic policy and accept things like interest rates being controlled by the ecb and use the euro (when economic circumstances allowed)

Brown in effect stopped Blair from taking the UK into the euro, mainly for the fear of losing a control of the pound sterling, which meant he had to abide by rulings of the Ecb not from the UK government. And, also to spite Blair as he wanted to be PM.

I voted to leave because I didn’t like the direction of travel of the eu which was morphing from a trade grouping into a nation state, one of which I couldn’t vote out. In the words of Tony Benn,

“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you”

and he like Peter Shore at the time were very anti-eu, same as Kinnock until he took the eu position and pension as a commissioner, same as his wife.

Tony Benn like Tariq Ali, who I profundly disagreed with, I could listen to all day as they gave their reasons for their beliefs, very few of present day hardly match people like this

[Adminvortex]

Absolutely insane. 7bn secretly authorised to fly over god knows how many unvetted Afghans

[JoeBloggs]

Signed off by the previous Government in 2023, and we’re only finding out now. And all caused by someone sending an incorrect email.

Many of those coming over will be those who helped us when we were out there, and their families.

[Adminvortex]

@JoeBloggs

Many of those coming over will be those who helped us when we were out there, and their families.

No they won’t, they are opportunists. How many do you think actually supported British troops? We should not take any more

[daws1159]

@JoeBloggs

Many of those coming over will be those who helped us when we were out there, and their families.

Some will be, lots won’t.

[grounded]

An error by a UK defence official in 2022 leaked the names of those who had applied to be resettled to the UK. That error put them at serious risk of harm from the Taliban and hence the UK has a responsibility for their safety. Our error, our problem to fix. The alternative is 100s of people being killed because of that error.

[AlexCorbin]

Looking forward to how kemi will spin this into kiers fault