More, yes. Extra, no.
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Not to mention the huge inflationary impacts of Brexit itself. (Admittedly alongside other inflationary things like the war)
I donât think this is true & really irritates as itâs dismissive of those who did vote & trys to put them in a box rather than look at the complexity.
Some of those were (in no particular order):-
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the relationship at the time was fractious with both sides unwilling to negotiate. TheEUs bureaucractic nature meant that any negotiation became problematic. The UK side couldnât really articulate what its end goal was (this probably should have been the end of free movement of people but not labour but no matter).
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there was & still is an abdication of responsibility- every issue on why we couldnât as a nation go forward was blamed on EU rules. A lot of this was internal laziness blaming the EU in the same way for blaming the council.
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people wanted change, things werenât working & something needed to mix it. The UK needed to take responsibility for it own issues & action rather than blaming them it elsewhere.
If you alway do what youâve always done then you will alway get what you always got.
There are other aspects such as where commonwealth countries where we have strong ties linguistic & cultural ties having greater bureaucratic issues than EU members where there was no affinity at all.
The fundamental failure of not taking responsibilities for our own issues & problems & blaming things on the past or or others is unfortunately still an issue within our nation - rather than blaming the EU we now blame Brexit or the far left or the far right or just a âthemâ in general because â themâ isnât âusâ so itâs not our fault so we didnât do anything wrong.
The biggest failure was within the leaving process - we should have worked with the EU to establish a membership suspension process which would have then eased the EU in keeping some of its more troublesome members in line.
At the end of the day if you donât want to be part of an organisation or membership is no longer working then leave.
Otherwise you end up in a similar relationship to one involving domestic abuse where you have the dominant partner going âlook at what Iâve done for you, you will never make it on your own without meâ
So please letâs not assume that people who voted for Brexit were idiots, naive or racists.
More people wanted change than things to continue as they were.
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âŚbut without realising the ramifications.
As I tried to explain to my work colleagues at the time, itâs better to be somewhat frustrated with the EU, sitting around a table together albeit only getting 20% of what you originally asked for, rather than being outside the locked door, & getting absolutely zero. And, throw in complicated (expensive) conditions if you ever want to get close to what you had before.
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What ever happened to that £350 million a week for the NHS�
Edit
Just seen that this was done further up.
I think many people, like your self and @JustCallMeFlight, are intelligent, and that you likely did consider wider information before coming to a conclusion. We may not agree politically, but I certainly donât think any less of either of you! Itâs nice being adults and not seeing eye to eye on everything, but still being able to debate and consider different view points.
But I know far, far too many more people who were just duped by what the Vote Leave campaign was saying. And in retrospect, they agree they were duped. I donât think theyâre idiots either, though; Itâs that I think the Vote Leave campaign did a good job at campaigning. And much of the headline campaign points were absolute tosh.
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this is shown by the immediate rise in racism chants in public at ânon-whitesâ 24hrs after the vote.
I am not suggesting all those who voted âleaveâ are racist - but a significant number of racists did vote âleaveâ on the basis they believed (wrongly) it would deport people
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This was equally true of the remain campaign: with the emergency budget that never happened, no sandwiches, super-gonorrhoea, etc.
I think I remember saying to someone at the time. That that racism had always been there itâs just that the vote turned over the stone exposing those beliefs & showed that the majority of the anti-racism campaigns hadnât dealt with the issue or promoted harmony but had just driven it underground into echo chambers.
Ironic really as the EU is far less ethnically diverse than the commonwealth so leaving should increase non-white immigration rather than decrease it.
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Indeed, it was argued that an immigration policy that favoured Europeans was a racist endeavour.
They were both tosh - it was two groups/factions invested in grabbing more for their side than thinking about what would actually be best for people - their ideologies & egos came before care & development.
The day to day people who didnât have investment portfolios or companies that would benefit were forgotten about & just expected to vote how they were told.
Itâs that arrogance that undid the EU & remain, that arrogance on why the UK leaving hasnât been the catalyst for both sides to gain & that arrogance on why the UK hasnât progressed as much as it could.
Everyoneâs trying to play chess when itâs more âSettlers of Catanâ
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Something I think we can probably all agree on.
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Part of the problem with any debate and discussion around racism in the UK is that it isnât possible for their to be a sensible debate about any subject concerning race without shrieks of racism the moment someone says something critical or asks what might be a reasonable question. (Likewise if you say anything pro-immigration or diversity you have the other side clutching their pearls and screaming âwonât someone think of the childrenâ.)
That drives moderates out of the mainstream conversation and as you say creates echo chambers where neither side has misconceptions challenged.
A great current example was that Notting Hill Carnival had to go begging central government for funding (despite already getting funding from the LA and the GLA), this sprung up the usual questions around safety.
Now everyone who works in crowd management, be that police officers, football safety officers, concert organisers knows how dangerous carnival is, the whole idea of that many people in that small a space would be laughed out of any sane SAG if you proposed it today.
But any criticism of the events safety is immediately dismissed as racism.
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oh i agree
the result gave those people a belief of authority that they could be more vocal in their racism
edit to add: I say this as I recall one example being mentioned where someone non-white on the bus, going about their usual commute to work, travelling alongside the usual strangers known only by familiarity of taking the same bus journey 5 days a week suddenly came under sustained and continual verbal racist abuse the day after the result. their fellow passengers always had this view, but knew it wasnât right to share it out loud, certainly not in the public setting of a service bus nor to the target of their abuse.
But this changed following the result as they felt/believed it gave them âpermissionâ to act upon their racist views and hurl abuse.
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GMG: RN PCS.
The trousers below are fresh out of the packet, theyâve been washed once, and ironed, without creases.
The very visible crease is purely from how they were folded in the packet, and how the line forms as soon as you fold it.
Honestly, Iâd rather just iron in creases and make it look deliberate.
It like the opposite of PCS23, which are almost impossible to iron a crease into.
Itâs not those weird pre-pressed creases then, like we get in blues trousers?
No, purely a fold line. The second hand uniforms which get crumpled look gopping as a result.
I voted leave after voting to stay in 1975 with the Wilson referendum. The Iron and Steel confederation morphed into the EEC, but then developed quasi statist ambitions to become a United States of Europe. The latter loudly pronounced by people like Verhofstadt and Tusk (now heâs PM of Poland, heâs changing his tune).
Papers released in the past couple of years proved Heath in 1973 lied to the British public as he was fully signed upto the present iteration of the eu of the future and beyond.
The eu at present doesnât have a real defence component and is very USA dependent, but that is coming one day, but they will expect the French to use their strategic missile forces to defend them, I wonder whether they actually would sacrifice Paris for Berlin.
They have monetary union but no actual fiscal (something the German Constitutional Court will not allow) union as the nation states have their own treasuries but they have a single interest rate for 20 plus countries when the euro was predicated to support the German economy. Look at what happened to Greece and Ireland in 2008, commissioners from the ECB appeared and in effect took over both economies, that bad in Ireland that the UK lent them billions to maintain liquidity. The Dutch, Poles and Hungarians maintained their own currencies. If the UK ever tried to rejoin we would have to give up control of economic policy and accept things like interest rates being controlled by the ecb and use the euro (when economic circumstances allowed)
Brown in effect stopped Blair from taking the UK into the euro, mainly for the fear of losing a control of the pound sterling, which meant he had to abide by rulings of the Ecb not from the UK government. And, also to spite Blair as he wanted to be PM.
I voted to leave because I didnât like the direction of travel of the eu which was morphing from a trade grouping into a nation state, one of which I couldnât vote out. In the words of Tony Benn,
âWhat power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of youâ
and he like Peter Shore at the time were very anti-eu, same as Kinnock until he took the eu position and pension as a commissioner, same as his wife.
Tony Benn like Tariq Ali, who I profundly disagreed with, I could listen to all day as they gave their reasons for their beliefs, very few of present day hardly match people like this
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