I know I had no option regards the SI and CI. And my reasoning was I was not there lord over people in uniform. What I have to offer shouldn’t be based on what I wear.
Plus it would be past 1700, there’s no way I am spending my free time in uniform…
DPM sources are not getting hard to come by. And it’s significantly cheaper.
The mark up on MTP is horrendous.
So now we have a big mix. Unprofessional looking, mishmash of uniforms, why then hasn’t someone further up the chain put a hold on it, until all sqns can be supplied? Rather that people buying bits and peices?
Glad to see your admitting its MTP…not PCS…
But your point of the RAF having is a fair one. But I will say again, why not have someone distinguish between Military and Cadets…?
I am not irked about it, I now have complete sets of PCS. Albeit no brown boots, go figure. Me and many comrades found it amusing that children were getting it before we were.
I will say again the argument for MTP is weak at best. But the ACO should be standing proud and use this to their advantage.
PCS you don’t have a leg to stand on.
[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson”]
So now we have a big mix. Unprofessional looking, mishmash of uniforms, why then hasn’t someone further up the chain put a hold on it, until all sqns can be supplied? Rather that people buying bits and peices?
Glad to see your admitting its MTP…not PCS…[/quote]
Perhaps because they aren’t supplied with any combat clothing?
And mine is definitely PCS. MTP PCS.
[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=16703]Why does that make sense? What practical reason does it serve?
Other than aesthetics?[/quote]
It is easier to get. As a “frontline soldier”, you should know that CS95 MTP (Tropical MTP as per the label) is no longer made and was produced as a UOR. All MTP kit now produced is PCS.
It doesn’t but seeing as we have to acquire combat uniforms somehow (not being scaled for them) then why not get the new stuff if people don’t mind forking out for it, seeing as MTP is a private purchase in most cases. If it’s out there for people to buy then why shouldn’t they?
Because then you get a mix of all types.
What happened to uniformity? I am pretty certain there’s a cadet in DPMs in the original picture (we have digressed a bit) why wasn’t he bought any?
Key word being Operational.
The RAF also get issued G suits, should cadets? They fly don’t they?
UBACS? It’s designed for Osprey too but that doesn’t matter. Surely?
The only reason people want to wear MTP or PCS is purely to look Gucci and look more like regular forces. Pure and simple. These are all just justifications to make it sound better.
I stand by what I said the ACO should be clear cut, and put a hold on and make a stand and be proud in DPM. Until all sqns can be supplied.
Going back to the topic in hand for a moment; Fundraising to buy sets, that’s just shameful. Its purely to look Ally. Theresa lot better things that money can be spent on!
Better IT kit?
Better Adventure Training kit?
Or even to buy the “have nots” boots or other items needed.
Don’t even get me started on private number plates.
I fear this will continue to be a tit for tat situation and nothing either side can say to change each persons mind.
But I have said it before and will say it again. A youth organisation to foster the spirit of Adventure.
As we’re rarely in greens in the public eye I’d argue uniformity is less important than usual. Eventually we would have to have changed from DPM to MTP, that change would never have been smooth, no matter how long we’d waited. Look at CS 95, certainly our Sqn has still got a few pairs of older DPM, so one might argue that even after almost twenty years we still aren’t fully in CS 95, the transition would always have been iffy.
CS95 WILL run out someday. Notice how no one says “why don’t we put the cadets in lightweights and woolly pulleys so that they’re not in camouflage, to differentiate from regulars” - because the old kit eventually wears out and disappears
Save for something like what happened above, as we’re not scaled and we will need to change, we will eventually have to change in dribs and drabs. Why not change now.
And why is it that people get the hump about cadets being in the same green kit as regulars, but are quite happy for them to be in the same blue kit?
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=16633]Interesting arguments from both sides of the fence.
However, if someone can tell me why a smaller amount of money could not have been spent on virtually new CS95; let’s face it, there is piles of it around, and the rest on the good of future cadets, then I think I could understand it better.
My personal opinion is it is pure vanity.[/quote]Remember that cadets want to be in MTP - I’d guess it’s much easier to fundraise (and so get much more cash) if it’s:
“Let’s go and do X to raise money to buy you all shiny new MTP kit"
than
"Let’s all go and do X to raise money so that new cadets can get DPMs (not you guys who are actually doing the fundraising of course, you’ve already got the kit)”.
What if they already have good IT kit, and good AT kit? Some squadrons are extremely good at managing their finances and have a strong cashflow - therefore can often afford to buy the ‘nice to haves’, and have probably funded all of their other priority items. I fail to see an issue.
MattB,
Or, do X to raise money for something else?
And exactly, cadets want to be in MTP so they look more military like. So they look more like something off of Call of Duty.
Staff encouraging it doesn’t help.
The issue is, it’s a LOT of money just frittered away on something that’s not needed. Or of you argue it is needed, it’s surely waaaaaay down on a list of priorities?
Boots, or Parade shoes are above it. Issue them so the cadet doesn’t have to pay.
Don’t get me wrong, I love field craft and I not saying cadets shouldn’t do it and always be in blues but there’s a line.
You dont issue Osprey. Because there is no need. So why issue PCS.
Stick with DPM make a bold statement about the ACO. Rather then oooh Gucci MTP!
[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=16712]MattB,
Or, do X to raise money for something else?
And exactly, cadets want to be in MTP so they look more military like. So they look more like something off of Call of Duty.
[/quote]
What’s actually wrong with that? You seem to be sort of missing the whole idea of ‘cadets’.
I never felt that cadets rocking MTP made me any less of an awesome (part time) steel eyed killer. They weren’t actually ripping it off my back. And if they’d tried then I could have exploded their heads with my awesomeness or run away really fast, due to not being a pasty COD playing teenager.
I’m struggling with the fact that grown men/ professional soldiers seem to be throwing a temper tantrum over other people getting to wear their special pyjamas. I mean, really guys?
I think this Scrinson geezer should concentrate on doing his frontline job and leave us as CFAV’s to do ours…
Scrinson, you’re not the only frontline or ex-frontline soldier on here my boy so get over yourself. Failed to make it to Lance-Private did we? Want some cheese with that whine?
If you’re not going to become a CFAV yourself and see us as below you; and as you get all uptight over a freaking uniform, go away and troll another forum, there’s a good chap.
The ACO isn’t scaled for ANY No3 kit - DPM/CS95/MTP/PCS
We get what we can beg borrow or steal - which is usually from a friendly storeman who has a bin of gash kit going spare.
Seeing as the storeman no longer stores DPM (as he doesn’t have any), we are beginning to beg borrow or steal MTP PCS.
If you’re so upset about a 13 year old wearing a uniform, I’d suggest you aren’t the sort of person we’d want in the ACO anyway?!
The simple fact is this squadron have seen an opportunity and gone for it. You might not agree with what they’ve bought, but at the end of the day who really cares. They clearly put in a good enough grant application and the council involved were clearly happy with what it was to be spent on, so why should anyone here care.
Gunner, I was fully aware there is others. Long time lurker, first time poster. Thanks for your input. Don’t you have some pebbles to play with somewhere?
Pep. Where did all the DPM go? It certainly didn’t vanish. There was stacks of the stuff left over. Why didn’t the ACO jump at the chance and try and organise something with the MOD?
If your struggling to find DPM your welcome to come and take some from my locker!
And if it’s a case of hard source or beg/burrow/steal, then it’s a damn sight cheaper to buy DPM… The mark up on MTP is horrendous.
Consider the vast quantities that would be required for such a deal. We are talking tens of thousands of sets, and that is assuming it is all the correct size for the cadets it is going to!
Buying loads of cheap DPM makes no sense if there isn’t a constant supply, which there isn’t. It makes it harder to supply individual replacement items and you end up replacing a perfectly serviceable pair of trousers and a smock purely because the shirt needed replacing and there wasn’t anything to replace it with.
For cadets, CS95 DPM works just as well as MTP PCS - this also works in reverse, so MTP PCS works just as well as CS95 DPM. If they are willing and able to finance it, what is the problem?