Mmmmm… :dry:
Going back on topic. What is the issue here?
Do they look ‘Uniform’ ? yes
Is the uniform correct ? yes
Is it their money ? yes
Does it make the ACO look good ? yes
Are some people suffering a hint of Jealousy …possibly 
[quote=“ddr61” post=16672]
Is it their money ? yes[/quote]
but some of it is tax payers money…from the council - that is what grinds my gears on this matter.
surely tax payers money via the RAF/MOD is the tax payers source of uniform? ie the supply chain we have in place…
[quote=“steve679” post=16673]
surely tax payers money via the RAF/MOD is the tax payers source of uniform? ie the supply chain we have in place…[/quote]
You could use that logic for most purchases. The MOD supplies what is considered to be the “essential” equipment so why do we buy anything extra? Mostly because they never supply enough and what they do supply isn’t always very good.
agreed
but in all my years i have never heard of the essential kit not being good enough.
i have gone to Cadet Direct for the odd short sleeve shirt in the past but i have never known a Squadron use it for uniform…kit of course but never uniform. what the RAF/Parent units have supplied as always been adequate and imo still is.
we have a mass of CS95 kit and cant claim there is a shortage and although not new in the packet kit much of it looks to have only lost its plastic wrapping.
I have. We were supplied a load of assault vests despite the fact that they could not fit A2 magazines without having the divider cut out, which reduces the integrity of the pouch and leaves it a floppy mess.
Slight tangent, but has anyone else noticed the one cadet at the back in DPM?
Peoples biggest issue here is the amount of money that has been spent which was provided by the taxpayer - Council Grant, with argument being is this the best use of that money.
Personally I believe that this grant money could have been better spent, but without knowing what the squadron already has none us really know. But a better use that would have more benefit would have been:
[ul]
[li]IT Kit[/li]
[li]AT Kit[/li]
[li]Webbing[/li]
[li]Spotting Scopes[/li]
[li]Sports Kit[/li]
[/ul]
Would I have spent £2000 on MTP - no, as CS95 is a perfectly suitable alternative that we never complained about until this new shiny uniform was available.
The best way to deal with the Have’s & Have Not’s is for staff to remain in CS95, and thus displaying to the cadets that there is nothing wrong with it… How many staff have rushed out and bought the new kit because makes them look like a regular, something we CFAV are not and should not try to be.
The fact that the cadets are all on board with this is of no surprise, they now have the new kit that cadets from other squadrons don’t, so at inter squadron events you will still have the Have’s & Have Not’s this is something that we won’t avoid. It is
On the AED front, even if it is never used, that is still a worthwhile investment, providing their are staff & staff cadets are trained in it’s correct use.
Now then.
I will offer a full and honest opinion.
Cadets have no place in MTP and especially PCS. It is Waltish, pointless and a damn waste of money.
As a frontline serving soldier it was disgusting seeing the MPGS and Army Cadet Force being issued MTP/PCS before my comrades and I!
PCS was designed for use with osprey modular body armour systems.
Quite frankly, its terrible. The pockets on the sleeves are pointless annoying and get in the way. (oh but its got ally looking velcro).
Cadets have no need or use for Osprey so why use it?
Some of us still wear the old shirts. Especially in the jungle, where we are striving to get DPM back!
I would do anything for mt old Arctic DPM smock back. The new stuff is terrible!
Cadets have no need to wear PCS or MTP. Multi Terrain Pattern being the key phrase.
DPM suitd the purpose just fine.
I feel the ACO has missed a trick here and could be head and shoulders above the rest and take on all the surplus DPM kit with the mind and attitude that they are differing themselves from other organisstions. DPM is good for its job and especially good at the job Cadets would use it for.
Anyone that argues for PCS is a bit of a walt.
Its disgusting seeing this waste of money and its attitudes like this that make me refuse to every come back to the ACO in uniform.
People thinking they have their own little military.
If its a case of have and have nots, surely a ruling of no PCS would make sense. And that money helping the have nots to get boots?
Any arguement for PCS is weak at best, if not null and void at all.
Yes this is a Military SPONSERED organisation. But it is a YOUTH organisation to foster the spirit of Adventure.
We are not the Hitler Youth.
Regardless of my opinions of the rest of your post, what on earth does that have to do with anything?
All the latest Military Uniform, kit and training, under the pretence of being a Miniture Military to fight as a last ditch attempt.
This is the attitudes I find with people in the ACO acting like its their own miniture Army.
Embrace and be Proud of who you are. A youth organisation that just so happens to wear uniform.
Whenever someone says something like this I automatically tune out. It is clear that they see the cadet forces as below them. There are many reasons to argue “for” MTP/PCS without automatically being a walt. It has been addressed many times so I don’t really see the need to go into it again. Cadets have MTP. Deal with it. If I were you I would be more concerned about the Ukrainian soldiers wearing it.
Have you ever seen a “community” AED, it’s defib by numbers as they are designed to be used by anyone. We’ve got one at work and only a couple of people have had the training, but anyone can use them. We have got 4 in our local area purchased by public fundraising attached to various buildings. Also if what I was told a few weeks ago is true, M&S and the Co-Op are going to have an AED in all their shops for public use. Unlikely you’d need one on an ATC squadron, though.
On the general notion of spending £2K on any sort of uniform, personally, nah. My CWC would have thought I’d banged my head, given the list I gave them last year.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=16685]
Have you ever seen a “community” AED, it’s defib by numbers as they are designed to be used by anyone. We’ve got one at work and only a couple of people have had the training, but anyone can use them. [/quote]
Very true, but training beforehand will save valuable time and the user will more confident as they already know what to do.
[quote=“talon” post=16683][quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=16679]
Cadets have no place in MTP and especially PCS. It is Waltish, pointless and a damn waste of money.
…
Anyone that argues for PCS is a bit of a walt.
[/quote]
Whenever someone says something like this I automatically tune out. It is clear that they see the cadet forces as below them. There are many reasons to argue “for” MTP/PCS without automatically being a walt. It has been addressed many times so I don’t really see the need to go into it again. Cadets have MTP. Deal with it. If I were you I would be more concerned about the Ukrainian soldiers wearing it.[/quote]
Fact is fella, Cadets are below me. I am a frontline soldier. I need PCS. Cadet forces do not.
PCS was designed to be used with Osprey. Or in service Body Armour. Hence the word System.
The only arguement is for MTP. Which is weak at best. There is no need. Cadets wont be deploying to Arid environments.
Why not stand proud in DPM. Its because you want to look like the Military.
PCS isnt all its cracked up to be. Its terrible. Its terrible in the Arctic. Its Terrible in the Jungle.
Be proud of who you are.
I think that says enough about you. Why are you even here?
[quote=“talon” post=16686][quote=“glass half empty 2” post=16685]
Have you ever seen a “community” AED, it’s defib by numbers as they are designed to be used by anyone. We’ve got one at work and only a couple of people have had the training, but anyone can use them. [/quote]
Very true, but training beforehand will save valuable time and the user will more confident as they already know what to do.[/quote]
Absolutely. They CAN be used by anybody, but they can be used BETTER by someone who is familiar with them.
[quote=“talon” post=16690][quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=16687]
Fact is fella, Cadets are below me. I am a frontline soldier.
[/quote]
I think that says enough about you. Why are you even here?[/quote]
Multiple Environments…because the Cadet is going to venture any further than a woodblock?
MTP you have a weak case for.
But PCS you don’t have a leg to stand on.
DPM does just fine.
The ACO can take hold of this and break away from the typical Cadet attitudes.
The amount of times I have seen cadets cut about giving it the big I am in MTP. It can bring the reputation of the Forces into disrepute.
And with the threat levels, (Lee Rigby) why shouldn’t the cadets have a definitive different uniform? To allow a separation of Military and Cadets?
Why am I here? Because I feel I have a lot of experience to offer and help educate, encourage and foster a spirit of adventure in the Youth. (Not encourage waltness or illusions of grandure) Not in uniform, I refuse to become a service Instructor but as possibly a CI.
Attitudes need to change.
We are a Uniformed Youth Organisation. We are proud of who we are, and proud to wear the uniform of our parent service, with appropriate distinguishing badges etc. That uniform now includes MTP, so that is what we are moving towards.
Some units are keen to get into the new pattern uniform. Others are making less of a push for it, but its where we will all end up.
DPM is getting harder to come by, from official sources, so in many cases the move to MTP is simply one of either convenience or necessity.
If you are irked that cadet forces seem to be getting it before you, then your issue is with your own chain of command and supply chain, not the cadet forces.
If you are serving, you don’t have the option to be a CI. Sorry. Be proud of what you are, i think you said?
And no-one in the cadet forces is ‘below you’. Different, yes, but not below. I can point out at least one attitude that needs to change.
MW
DPM is all fine and dandy, but it isn’t made any more and I gave mine back/donated to the local ATC when I was issued MTP PCS.
“Cadets cut about giving it the big I am in MTP” Really? I think what is happening is you are seeing someone else wear the same uniform that you are and you don’t like it.
Threat levels? The only real threat to cadets in my area is the local chav population, and they are all mouth.
[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=16692]
Attitudes need to change.[/quote]
From this end, your attitude isn’t coming across too well.
Don’t feed the troll… They just end up breeding and coming back with more.