Can’t see the issue. CS95 and DPM are obsolete. It’s no longer the uniform of HM Armed Forces.
Any new kit purchased should be the new stuff.
As to vanity… no more so than all that public money spent on bearskins and red coats, Racing_Stick 
From the squadron in question via Facebook!
Hi all,
The article below has caused quite a few threads with some negative comments. If any of you see some comments on this please pass on that the reason we applied for the grant and fundraised for the new MTP was simple. As the parents of some of our cadets fall into the low income bracket they would never be able to afford MTP so we would end up on parade with the ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ distinguished by the uniform they were wearing. As a staff group we felt that was unacceptable so we decided to fundraise for the kit. New cadets get the mtp as well which comes from their subs. We got an excellent deal from a local supplier so were very pleased with the result! A secondary result is a disciplined, uniform squadron is a proud squadron, and all of our cadets are proud of belonging to 1182,
As for the defib, look no further than the air cadet that died at Sports with respiratory failure. I will do anything to prevent that happening when we are around. The money spent on the defib is worth every single penny!
Please pass this on to anyone who is negative about our MTP!
This is popping up on various threads with quite a lot of negativity - even more worrying is the negativity regarding the De-fib.
This is a local Sqn to me and the reason they applied for the grant and fundraise for the new MTP was simple. As the parents of some if the cadets fall into the low income bracket they would never be able to afford MTP, so a Sqn parade would end up with the ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ distinguished by the uniform they are wearing. As a staff group they felt this was unacceptable so they decided to fundraise for the kit. New cdts get MTP as well which comes from their subs.
As for the De-Fib look no further than the air cadet who died at sports with respiratory failure. As staff we have to do anything go prevent that happening whilst we are around. The money spent on Dr-fib is worth every single penny.
In my opinion, it is entirely laudable that a Sqn chooses to spend its money on an AED. However I hope that they never need to use it, but if they do? Well, it might give someone a fighting chance. Would this be a bad thing?
This is pure vanity.[/quote]
I could not agree more! :mad:
This is pure vanity.[/quote]
I could not agree more! :mad:[/quote]
Did it come from sqn funds? If not, then whilst still vain what people do with their own money is there business surely?
If it’s from cadets fundraising then it is unnacceptable, I concur.
Oneof the Welsh Wings spent money on Personal VRN plates, for its Wing Landrover
[quote=“tango_lima” post=16636]Can’t see the issue. CS95 and DPM are obsolete. It’s no longer the uniform of HM Armed Forces.
Any new kit purchased should be the new stuff.
As to vanity… no more so than all that public money spent on bearskins and red coats, Racing_Stick ;)[/quote]
I’m afraid you are not quite correct here. CS95 and DPM is not obsolete. Night operations have proved that. As the chances are that cadets are unlikely to undertake exercises in AFG, the use of MTP by the cadet forces is immaterial. Vanity has absolutely nothing to do with the official ceremonial uniform of the Guards Division. Wearing MTP by cadets is just an opportunity to look good and trying to look like regulars.
The red tunics, which are NOT purchased by public money hold massive historic significance and actually their use helps provide even more for the national economy. MTP undoubtedly is better for operations in far off places, it doesn’t however, offer anything to Air Cadets. Except vanity, of course.
I can assure you that wasn’t No.1 Welsh, we’d have to buy a Landrover first 
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=16647][quote=“tango_lima” post=16636]Can’t see the issue. CS95 and DPM are obsolete. It’s no longer the uniform of HM Armed Forces.
Any new kit purchased should be the new stuff.
As to vanity… no more so than all that public money spent on bearskins and red coats, Racing_Stick ;)[/quote]
I’m afraid you are not quite correct here. CS95 and DPM is not obsolete. Night operations have proved that. As the chances are that cadets are unlikely to undertake exercises in AFG, the use of MTP by the cadet forces is immaterial. Vanity has absolutely nothing to do with the official ceremonial uniform of the Guards Division. Wearing MTP by cadets is just an opportunity to look good and trying to look like regulars.
The red tunics, which are NOT purchased by public money hold massive historic significance and actually their use helps provide even more for the national economy. MTP undoubtedly is better for operations in far off places, it doesn’t however, offer anything to Air Cadets. Except vanity, of course.[/quote]
Cadets wearing up to date serviceable uniform that they haven’t had to shell out for themselves and looking smart and presentable while doing = bad
Special red coats and woolly hats for marching up and down in London = good
Gotcha.
my objections to this (uniform)
the use of public/tax payers money for unnecessary kit.
i’d be questioning why the council forked out £2000 to assist with this purchased which could have gone elsewhere.
defib…hmm ok, bit of an odd one. depends how much exposure it will get but for our Squadron i would question if we’d ever need it. in all the years i have been doing public/community events we’ve never had to deal with a first aid incident where professionals were not already onsite.
i question what is wrong with having “the have and have nots”??
if it was such a big issue then we’d get issued the kit, or HQAC/RAF/MOD wouldn’t permit us to have the mix on Squadron
we have our fair share of “low income” families on Squadron and find there are the “have and have nots” without the introduction of MTP-PCS
parade shoes is always an obvious one, or when conducting AT/DofE the differences in personal kit, again footwear is an obvious one. but it is clear whose parents went to GoOutdoors and spend £100 and those who simply couldnt
where do you draw the line??
for me it seems simple, issued kit is issued kit. everyone is expected to reach a minimum standard, once met if personal additions (like a stable belt, or Altberg/Magnum/Lowa boots) are chosen then so be it!
I have two thoughts on this, the first is that it is pretty shaeful that we are not scaled for a minimal issue of MTP, since we clearly do plenty of activities that call for it. Frankly, if it were issued, then a lot of units might give more credence to HQACs attempts to control who wears what and when.
The second is well done to the unit concerned. They decided they wanted something, raised the money, got the grants, went out and got it! I’m sure that EVERY unit has a list of failed projects, unused equipment, ill advised purchases and other ‘errors’ behind them, that started out with good intentions and some small modicum of success.
This one would seem to instil a degree of unit pride, good public image (for the ACF :P) and have practical applications, probably far more than half a dozen unfinished flight sims, hovercraft, ill advised IT kit or software and the like. Quite probably most of our units could be picked apart by others looking in, over some activity or decision. I think there are far worse things for a unit to be criticised over than this, and perhaps some detractors should back off a bit.
MW
I totally agree with MW - what the Sqn decides to do with its funds, is nothing to do with anyone, least of all us.
I commend the Sqn for NOT allowing the distinction of the ‘have’s’ and ‘have nots’ despite what Steve679 says. Where is his compassion for those whose parents can’t afford MTP? Granted, its not essential and CS95 would serve equally as well but the Sqn - in my view - has gone to lengths to ensure such a distinction isn’t created. Lets face it - HQAC has no intention of finding the money to scale everyone for MTP and like the old uniform, we’ll be left to our own devices in terms of where we can beg, borrow or steal it. At least this Sqn has been up-front about where its come from.
As for ‘public money’ again, what the Council decides to do with its grants is also up to them. No doubt the Sqn would have had to inform the Grants Committee exactly what they intended to use the money for and by purchasing a defibrillator, they are certainly taking into account first aid eventualities based on a stated historical precedent. As an AED trainer myself, I applaud them. As for Steve679 saying that he’s never been anywhere where an AED has had to be used, lucky him. AED’s saves lives and if one is only used once to good effect, then its money well spent.
The Sqn raised the funds and obtained additional funds through a recognised source. Well done to them for getting off their backsides and doing it.
[quote=“tango_lima” post=16649][quote=“Racing Stick” post=16647][quote=“tango_lima” post=16636]Can’t see the issue. CS95 and DPM are obsolete. It’s no longer the uniform of HM Armed Forces.
Any new kit purchased should be the new stuff.
As to vanity… no more so than all that public money spent on bearskins and red coats, Racing_Stick ;)[/quote]
I’m afraid you are not quite correct here. CS95 and DPM is not obsolete. Night operations have proved that. As the chances are that cadets are unlikely to undertake exercises in AFG, the use of MTP by the cadet forces is immaterial. Vanity has absolutely nothing to do with the official ceremonial uniform of the Guards Division. Wearing MTP by cadets is just an opportunity to look good and trying to look like regulars.
The red tunics, which are NOT purchased by public money hold massive historic significance and actually their use helps provide even more for the national economy. MTP undoubtedly is better for operations in far off places, it doesn’t however, offer anything to Air Cadets. Except vanity, of course.[/quote]
Cadets wearing up to date serviceable uniform that they haven’t had to shell out for themselves and looking smart and presentable while doing = bad
Special red coats and woolly hats for marching up and down in London = good
Gotcha.[/quote]
Lol. No idea.
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=16663]
Lol. No idea.[/quote]
Let me explain a bit more clearly…
You know how me describing your full dress as vanity made you feel? Especially after all that hard work you put in to be allowed to wear it? And all the associated pride and esprit de corps, etc?
Now think about how those cadets feel when someone like you, who they look up to, does the same thing. Because for them it is the same thing, and it probably is as much of a big deal in their young lives and neither you nor I have the right to take that away from them.
Why shouldn’t they look good if they want to? Yes they could do the same activities just as well in green overalls, the same as trooping the colour could be done just as well in combats. It’s only the way it looks, after all.
Isn’t there a new MTP Shirt coming out for Cadets? Due to the fact you struggle to roll your sleeves up with blanking plates on the arms? It’ll certainly be a waste of money if a newer design comes out…
Gentleman. This isn’t about being personal, please grow up.
Since the squadron being described as ‘vain’, etc. since post one is made up of real people, I can’t see what else this thread is about.
I am not denying the life saving capabilities of the kit.
i was simply indicating any situation we have had which needed first aid assistance at a Community event had dedicated first aiders (St John’s or otherwise) on site and so would question what benefit WE (the Sqn i am on) offer with a AED given 99% of the events we do we aren’t part of the first cover.
from a personal point of view i cannot see the point…but i am not on the Squadron in question and so if they have a higher presence in terms of first aid cover then great, but to me, based on my experiences, both with first aid instances, and the first aid cover at public/community events i have taken part in over a variety of Squadrons, the kit would be near redundant.
No. There is a new design without the padding pockets on the forearms and with reduced velcro on the blanking plates. It is MOD wide, not just for cadets and is in fact already in production.
Did they only get a ‘live’ AED? A training AED would have been useful I would think.