I knew I had seen that somewhere!
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I canât access the figures at work, but from memory there are more CIs than the combined uniform totals, which says it all.
If a uniform only staff as suggested was to be imposed and current CIs given âgrandfather rightsâ to remain as a CI, you could have a number of CIs for 40 or more years, so still have a 3 tiered staff for the life of many staff. If a remustering was imposed for all current CIs could the Corps take the hit if a number said no? As we all know staff recruitment is at best bloody difficult and retention another matter entirely.
What happens to the number of uniformed staff become CIs on resigning their uniform, these people have a wealth of knowledge that you couldnât replace if you tried. I know that the CI wouldnât be an option, but it is way of retaining knowledge if they desire to stay.
If we went all uniform HQAC would have to make it a damn sight more appealing than it is. A few days pay if you tick the appropriate boxes, isnât enough. As Angus mentions HQAC through policy or via legislation has contrived to suck the joy out of being staff and CI gives people an option that allows them some flexibility.
I donât buy the more committed line if youâre in uniform. Wearing a blue suit doesnât make you more committed, commitment is a personal thing in whatever you do, be that job or any volunteer role, BUT your job and family trump anything the Corps wants. I do several other things and because I volunteer to do them I do them, as thatâs my nature. If I didnât want to do them, I wouldnât do them. Thereâs no personal gain or what might be regarded as kudos from doing them, just like the ATC. Iâm no more committed to things in the Corps than I was years ago as CI, than in uniform. When you consider being in uniform you are told you have to do this and that, on top of what you have at sqn, something has to give. We didnât go to a Sector parade which I duly informed the organiser. After the event our WSO visited and wasnât too appreciative when I explained why we didnât go and that itâs OK for Wing Staff as they donât do anywhere as much on a regular basis as squadron staff. Weâd had staff and cadets at things in the preceding weeks and as the Commanding Officer I made a decision we werenât attending, as we needed a whole weekend with our families or doing our own thing. I said Iâm told it is for me to decide what we / donât do.
It is interesting picking up on points in the recruitment poster thread in that the corporate image is regarded as a deterrent for people, which flies in the face somewhat of the everyone in uniform argument. Or is it a case of get them through the door and hit them with it, which displays little or no integrity.
Good find there, i knew i hadnât gone crazy just yet!
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Cheers Steve
Good thing our sqn stopped door to door a long time ago!!
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From memoryâŚ
The CI population is just above 50% of the ACO staff uniformed staff make up less than 50% (obviously 
)
I firmly believe this doesnât give an accurate picture to the true staffing of the ACO. Whilst there are more CIs granted how many do things out with their sqn parade night??
Before a CI reading this takes the hump saying how they do, as a CI I did also but I was in the minority in our wing and I think you could be too. I also believe wings are putting too many people into uniform too who only want to look good and swagger about and waste some fresh air.
I think we should just draw a line under this thread and start a new one⌠Why did we join as staff? No bitching, complaining but back to the honest reason we started and moved up as a staff member⌠Anyone for that???
Go for it. COuld be interesting.
Sorry, I could have been more clear here; the door to door collections were on the married quarters patch.
Perhaps because the person concerned got a lot out of the ATC as a cadet (which led to a career in aviation) and now realises that precious few of the CFAV know much about aviation. One only has to look at the Ultilearn Powerpoint presentations to realise that the ATC is getting a long way from its roots.
Or maybe you just frighten everyone else away?
Afraid not, binned loads of deadwood when I took over. (I mean real deadwood who never did anything at all ever!)
Since then all bar 2 people who have walked through he door are either in uniform or are CIâs with the intention of going into uniform. (They are mostly at Uni so not able to commit to the uniform process at the moment.) Of the 2 who didnât stay, one moved up north 6 months are joining and one I told to jog on after observing their attitudes and behavior. (Bit embarrassing that they were recommended to me by a WSO)
Forgive me for holding this point, but i donât think there are any exemptions to this rule?
At the same time there is the letter of the rule and the spirit of the rule. This is clearly a safe guarding rule, if you are on a service establishment itâs not the same as being on a housing estate on Moss Side!
Forgive me, but you were still by your own admission making dor to door collections, surely the location is irrelevant.
It is the old âinterpreting what they might mean, not doing what they actually tell youâ ploy.
one is reminded of an episode of Yes, Minister where some city/banker chap is discussing with Sir Humphrey a case of tax evasion - the gist was that rules had to be interpreted, and the company concerned had disagreed with the IRâs interpretation of the rules⌠queue much eyebrow raising from HA.
to me the no door-to-door collections rule is not just a safeguarding issue, its a reputational one - door-to-door collections are not a uniformly welcomed phenomenon, and even less so when it turns out that the organisation itself bans them. bad feeling, followed by bad publicity. nil pointsâŚ
Donât get me wrong I wouldnât do it, but there is a difference between going round the married quarters and going to Brixton.
That would explain why you would go on to become a CFAV, my point was specifically the uniform vs non-uniform question though.
Well, I have worn some sort of uniform in most of my career (although more correctly called âcompany liveryâ) and I donât want wear uniform any more.
Also I am too old to take a commission.
Donât people think that the fact we have a better mix of individuals in the organisation because we donât all have to wear a uniform? If we went all uniform, there is a danger of more walter mitties, Iâve seen a few of them in the ACO and ACF (more in the latter IMO), this doesnât mean they arenât keen to help cadets etc, but the uniform and or rank becomes more important.
I question why I still wear a blue suit every so often, like I question why I work where I do and why I do the other things I do. If I donât think Iâm getting anything out of these then there would need to be a change. Iâve canned a couple of things over the years but replaced them with other things.
However why do we need a uniform to do what we do in the Corps? If like XN150 you have an interest and want to pass that onto youngsters, but are too old or just donât want the uniform, does that mean your input is unwanted or less important than someone who comes in knowing SFA but wants to go into uniform?
In terms of knowing SFA I would due to the way we do classification training I would include a vast number of ex-cadets from the last 8 years or so, as the classification system doesnât actually require any real knowledge to pass them. I was at a squadron on Monday to pick something up and a staff cadet (MAC) taking the class was less than useless and he was going direct into uniform in a couple of months. Iâve heard Wing Staff and his CO gush about him, he must have some outstanding qualities. I mentioned it to the CO and he said âwell heâs MAC and done and passed the MOIâ. I felt anymore discussion would have been lost on him. Iâve seen some of my senior cadets instruct and they have been removed and told to generate their own 15 minute presentations on specified parts of the syllabus and deliver them to me and the TO before continuing to take classes.
Apart from the RAF link, I fail to see what job among the volunteer side that actually needs a uniform in the Corps in order to do it. Some seem to espouse that itâs intrinsic to what we do, but I get a sense that itâs more about the desire to have control over people and for some sqn cdrs and Wing Staff to play God. If you need a uniform and rank to âcontrolâ people, above them respecting you in that position, then itâs time to go home.