Another argument for doing things via the cadet portal?
Exactly!! Iām not sure the organisation understands this issue, as it just adds paperwork without thinking things through!!
āPermission is given to participate in all appropriate activities.ā taken from the TG21
is it the failing of the form author for not indicating what those activities might be - or the signatory for not questioning what these activities might be??
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Certainly in the AT field the view of those running NGB Courses is that responsibility lies with the person running the activities to inform the parents as to what is going to be taking place.
as i predicted - so then it raises the question - what should accompany a TG21 form to answer that ignorance.
a set of JIs is pointless as that is the pick up and drop off points with a kit list (ignoring the fact no one would be on a camp and have JIs without a TG form and money sent in about 3 years prior to the overnight stay).
so should parents expect a timetable of events for a camp/other activity?
ie - how do we fix this issue in a robust fashion??
For me the letter that goes home with the form should be sufficient, I load a PDF version onto Bader job done.
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what is this you speak of??
what does it include?
is this something you as Squadron Staff produce or something Wing/the Camp Com produces for you?
For things thatās I run and am creating the Bader application for itās something i produce. This goes for things I run at Squadron or Wing Level.
so it is only you doing thisā¦but what is itā¦you havenāt answered what is in the letter
May be included in JIs issued to cadets?
Iām not the only one, I stole my version from one of our Rock Climbing Instructors. Itās the standard letter home but instead of just āhey we are going on an Expedition it costs Ā£X please return a consent formā it provides details of what the Expedition actually entails so that the parents can give informed consent. So they know that little Johnny will be on their own whilst our walking, that they will be unsupervised overnight, that they will be cooking their own food using gas stoves etc
By the time we get to JIās and Admin Orders itās too late as they have already submitted a TG21 with no idea of what for.
Would be good to see a copy of that if possible to use as a template.
Personally I tend to send detailed JIs out with TG21/23 forms attached in the hope the parents would read through them before signing the consent forms. Obviously it depends on the activity with overnight camps and AT requiring detailed JIs (sometime timetables too) whilst for sports I wouldnāt bother with JIs.
My wing wants TG forms with the money in Feb, while the camp programme may never get to the sqn let alone the cadet by the time they depart. So no chance if informed consent there.
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which is precisely my point
it is not unusual to see Wing moaning either at a lack of interest or nominations going forward but no paperwork (TG forms) or cash ~4 months ahead of the camp yet the Staff team hasnāt been confirmed at that time let alone what the programme of events might look like.
its sounds @daws1159 that you have a workable system in place for the events that you are involved in and are within the Squadron control/organisation. but what happens for Wing events? be that a development course or annual camp?
My opinion is that the fault is all with the person who holds the information.
The signatory who signs, can only give their consent with the information supplied on the form used to gain consent (hence my concern with the TG21).
Unless you provide more information, as daws1159 does, how can the signatory be informed?
For example RIAT Camp. There is lots of information about what happens at RIAT all over the web and social media, but a TG21 does not direct anyone to that information or ask for confirmation that the signatory has seen this information and agrees to their child taking part!
It is a big issue in the Overseas Expedition Sector, especially after some very serious incidents.
A consent form is pointless unless the signatory knows what they are signing for as it is clear in the paperwork!
Wing Events which I donāt run I canāt do much about, for things like courses which are low risk or sports which are self explanatory itās not really an issue. (If you sign a consent form for Football it can be safely assumed you know whatās happening).
The big one for me is Annual Camps where the DDH isnāt even in the RAFAC as itās the Station Commander and the NACATC camps where all thatās sent out are quite vague JIās.
The other problem that has not been spoken of is overseas camps or IACE, and consent to hospital treatment as you will come under that countries laws regarding child care and treatment. When we had RAF hospitals in Cyprus and Germany, and an RN one in Gibralter then it was far easier. Now you have to access local providers, that is where it becomes far more tricky.
Does anyone know exactly what is going to happen?
All activity programmes can change like the wind, so we donāt really have much idea.
I was going to make this exact point - you canāt account for everything.
The list would be too long for starters, then thereās bound to be an opportunity or activity that crops up that you missed off. Thatās before you get the "you said my son/daughter would do this, weāre not happy and theyāre incredibly upset as they were really looking forward to it. Not saying itās right, but itās an earache thatās bound to pop up and one thatās not worth risking.
Iām not saying you can, but using a generic one size fits all form is not what we should be doing.
I have led many overseas expeditions to Jungle, Altitude and very remote locations (not all at the same time!!). I held parents meetings prior to departure, giving a full itinerary and made all the risk assessments available to anyone who wanted to see them.
You can never cover all occurrences, but I think it is important to show you tried, like daws1159 with his DofE letter!
Remember, it wonāt be HQAC having to explain themselves, it will be the activity leader!!
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