OOPS! sorry Typhoon
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This raises a big bear Iāve had for a while on two fronts:
First, we need a push for more profile pics. Poor Typhoonā¦
Second, the lack of this policy really winds me up. As does the requirement in my wing for a paper copy to be at wing HQ to reserve a place for any activity. Electronic ones, even scanned originals with signatures are ignored. Itās a right PITA!
Why is there no ACO wide definition of what is required.
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We only have an adminer as Commandant how could you expect them to get the admin in the Organisation sorted you crazy person!
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But as an old style adminner they will be wanting bits of paper, as they want to keep as much of the costs at squadron level.
Why do we have documents PDFd when nearly everyone uses MS Office and WIndows? Itās not like 25 years ago when there were several providers of āofficeā software and you couldnāt look at something done using say Lotus with Microsoft and vice versa, which was a problem we had at work.
Language!
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the TG21 form is a āparent consent formā
I forget with policy/instruction it is in but it is certainly in the SMS tick box paragraph and has been for 3+ years that āparental consentā has been given for an event - what better form is there (that is HQAC recognised) than a TG21?
i do question if it needs to be as big and detailed form as it is.
why not something along the lines of
āDo you give Cadet insert name here permission to attend insert event name here on date here and have checked their F3822 confirm contact details are correct?
Please note it is a parent/carerās responsibility, as agreed when signing the F3822A form upon enrollment and in their F3822, to inform Squadron staff of any changes to the health of your child/ward not already declared on the F3822A.ā
signed (parent/carer)________________________________ date _______
and then encourage a TG23 for any new illnesses or health issues.
nothing in my suggestion is new - the parental signature in the F3822 page indicates changes to health will be brought to the Squadron Staff attention.
now we all know they dont but if the wording was as above how is that different from the TG23 forms we get which we know are false and about as honest and consistent as President Trumpās messages?
I wonder if the new Cadet Portal might help by getting rid of the need for such forms?
No, cant always guarantee online access.
As a side issue. It has been years since I have had to take a cadet to hospital. Has anybody here taken a cadet to A&E? Did they want to see the consent form before the cadet was treated or were the parents called?
Then you could print details off of SMS for everyone attending in a single hit.
I have taken lots over the years and 3 this year (i think i am a curse!). I have never ever been asked for a consent form or to contact the parents.
Yes, they looked over the consent form when we arrived and then the doctor noted the TG23 information and then cross checked it with the cadet.
A few years ago there was a major issue at a camp on a station and all the cadets were initially quarantined and then about 10 cadets were treated at hospital when they returned to camp the station doctor took the TG forms and reviewed them and then checked the cadets over the next 24hrs and had to give approval for them to continue on the camp. This raised a few points that I was unaware of
One thing I didnāt realise (and neither did our WXo) was for cadets going to camp prior to this is that their TG forms should be submitted 4/6 weeks prior to the station and the station Doctor has to review them and can reject any cadet they feel they have medical issues they cannot deal with properly.
Well, thatās definitely not in the policy!
Not in ours that I knew of but it is in the RAFāS as some people were hauled over the coals for it
And the next year the TG forms were submitted 6weeks prior to the station.
A friend did say she found it in the ACP relating to annual camps hidden away in requirements for WXos but I couldnāt be bothered looking for it to be honest.
Really? I know we submit in advance (but thereās usually one or two missing).
How do we go to Linton then? They refuse to even see a cadet in the Med Centre!
Iāve taken cadets to A&E and if thereās a TG23 given it across. The 21 just helps with logging the cadetsā details and records checking.
Staff are usually perfectly happy as to who we are and why weāre the accompanying adults.
Having just looked at the TG21, 23 and reading the guidance on medical consent NHS website Consent and young people. Do we need the TG forms taken to hospital?
The TG21 is the consent to attend the activity and to declare any medical conditions. It does not say by signing this form I give the holder consent on act on my behalf in medical matters. It is only consent to attend an activity.
Further more the guidance above is that at 16 you can give consent to medical treatment and if they are younger and have capacity then cadets can still give consent to medical treatment.
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We might not need it, but it certainly helps to legitimise who we are and why weāre there.
Weāve had one case where the Hospital, once theyād patched the kid up, refused to discharge him into our care. The parents HAD to come and collect him.
They wouldnāt even accept a phone call from mum to say āhand him back to the ATCā she physically had to collect him. It took 3 hours for Mum to arrive - having taken a taxi as she was a non driver!
I swore that weekend. Far, far more than normal. And I wrote a strongly worded letter to the NHS trust. As did the parent.
The problems with the cadet consent form is how it deals with informed consent, which is a massive issue in the expeditioning sector.
For example: Does the signatory understand what they are signing for? .
A parent signs to allow their child to attend Annual Camp, not really knowing what that means. Would they understand that their children may dress up in Firefighting kit and ride on fire engines or take part in engineering work on RAF Aircraft?
So, are the TG forms robust enough to stand up to legal action? I donāt think so!
Their prolific use is being used as a comfort blanket for the organisation and staff in charge of activities. I donāt know how much ācomfortā they provide!
Iāve had that with a Senior Officer questioning why my letter for DofE included information on remote supervision and burns from cooking.