I thought the phrase was “If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball?”
I thought the phrase was “If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball?”[/quote]
Thought I would try and mix it up a bit made me smile on the inside
Ok, so its a bending of the ‘CI’S can wear uniform in the band’ rule.
Id hate to see your risk assessments if your attitude is that its ok to throw slip hazards on the floor and march veterans over them! Bit of reality here please.
Our squadron band has someone appointed to pick up sticks in public duties, from the look of this one, a WO taking point in the diamond with no other staff I’m guessing there were no other uniform staff to fill the role. Slight bending of the rules and everyone is happy, uniform, safe and every other buzz word you can think of.
I really don’t see a massive issue here, he doesn’t look bad in uniform, holding the ATC to good uniform standards, keeping people safe, I say good effort, carry on.
Sounds a bit feral to me.
I hate to say so but I think this is one of those occasions where it has been pointed out it is wrong by practically everyone who has an opinion. It is a “cadetism”! You say bending but it is a pure breaking of the rules regarding public appearance by civilian instructors.
If it was REALLY that necessary for him to walk behind to pick up drum sticks why did he need to have a uniform on. He could have got just as much respect by simply marching along in a smart suit as all the veterans did.
I have defended the bands marching but I don’t think defending this is in any ones benefit as many people have quite rightly stated at grass roots level we need to help each other where its noticed there are “local” issues regarding things like this.
He is NOT holding the uniform standards together. He is breaking them! It isn’t a good effort. Please don’t carry on.
So your saying that if he were holding a trumpet instead of a drumstick you have no issues whatsoever (Which is 100% to the regs: ‘CIs who wear uniform, to maintain the uniformity of the band, are to wear it in accordance with the dress regulations’). Yet holding drumsticks instead of a trumpet isn’t bending the rules, its all out breaking them and cannot be tolerated under any circumstances? All because someone in the band is marching with 2 drumsticks in his hand instead of a trumpet.
Also would you have someone in civilian clothing marching in the centre of a Cadet parade? Somehow I doubt it. That’s the whole reason CI’s are allowed to wear uniform in the band ‘to maintain uniformity’.
[quote=“goober” post=14014]
Also would you have someone in civilian clothing marching in the centre of a Cadet parade? Somehow I doubt it. [/quote]
Yes, every year we have junior cadets amongst the Sqn on remembrance parade.
[quote=“goober” post=14014]So your saying that if he were holding a trumpet instead of a drumstick you have no issues whatsoever (Which is 100% to the regs: ‘CIs who wear uniform, to maintain the uniformity of the band, are to wear it in accordance with the dress regulations’). Yet holding drumsticks instead of a trumpet isn’t bending the rules, its all out breaking them and cannot be tolerated under any circumstances? All because someone in the band is marching with 2 drumsticks in his hand instead of a trumpet.
Also would you have someone in civilian clothing marching in the centre of a Cadet parade? Somehow I doubt it. That’s the whole reason CI’s are allowed to wear uniform in the band ‘to maintain uniformity’.[/quote]
Holding a trumpet and holding stick are not the same lets face it you cant play sticks you need a drum!!!
We are a uniformed organization we have rules to be followed in AP’s and the rules have been broken not being funny but you are defending it a bit to much are you the CI in the vid??
On remebarance parade we have always let CI’s march with Cadets in a suit ect granted its behind them but its no different as a Veteran I often wear shirt tie and a blazer and as a Veteran I can say we are big enough and ugly enough to know not to fall on a stick.
This how it starts one person will as you say “bend the rules” (I say break) then next thing you know you have CWO on the sqn wearing SD hats NCO’s wearing GPJ’s or worse underage kids wearing a uniform on parade!! (which I brought up in a different thread)
[quote=“goober” post=14005]Ok, so its a bending of the ‘CI’S can wear uniform in the band’ rule.
Id hate to see your risk assessments if your attitude is that its ok to throw slip hazards on the floor and march veterans over them! Bit of reality here please.
Our squadron band has someone appointed to pick up sticks in public duties, from the look of this one, a WO taking point in the diamond with no other staff I’m guessing there were no other uniform staff to fill the role. Slight bending of the rules and everyone is happy, uniform, safe and every other buzz word you can think of.
I really don’t see a massive issue here, he doesn’t look bad in uniform, holding the ATC to good uniform standards, keeping people safe, I say good effort, carry on.[/quote]
What utter rot.
Do they not have any spare cadets to perform that duty?
I think this is one of those threads where lessons should be learned from ones peers.
I don’t think its the guy with the sticks. It’s probably the ex Regiment Warrant Officer leading the cadets who, IMHO, should have stamped on this at the beginning preparation for the Parade.
Quoting regulations to suit a situation you have manipulated to suit your own staff’s requests/egos/misguided ideas is also placing under question your own policies overall, for example your own risk assessments.
If you comment about other peoples lack of risk assessment i.e. tripping over a stick being out of order then what other orders/guidelines/policies are you “bending” or as we agree is breaking, to suit your own needs. By defending something which everyone else finds out of order you diminish your own credibility and therefore call into question the overall quality of leadership in the ATC, perhaps.
Just a thought about the practical points of picking up drum sticks - I doubt very much if the person concerned would have seen such items in the ground until the last second, & would then have been faced with a super-speedy pick-up without risking a Parade scatter as he bumped into those marching behind…
The point of him being there was not so much as to pick up the sticks, but to provide the drummers with a spare in the event of a stick being dropped. At the end of the day they are only cadets not professional musicians.
Also as the bandmaster, he would be helping keep the timing of the band, helping the bands’ performance as a whole. So yes, he may not have been physically playing an instrument but he was definitely performing as part of the band.
I think this thread has run its course. The only people who seem to defend it are the people guilty of what everyone agrees is a breaking of the dress regulations. There isn’t any justifiable reason why a senior gentleman walking behind the band would need to be in uniform. If anything it diminishes from the overall effect that a young group of teens are committing effort and obvious hard work (albeit out of step but no complaints from me there) by dressing in a uniform and having no real functional part of the music. Carrying drum sticks sounds very thin as a reason. Let us be honest. The guy wanted to be recognised as being responsible for the effort to get a band underway. If that is the case then congrats mate, you did a great job. However, as many people often state, recognition is a dirty word much of the time in any volunteering environment. So next time walk in a suit, accept the reward of knowing their efforts are a direct result of your efforts and be proud of what you have done.
If you want a medal and adulation for doing it… wake up and welcome to my world.
[quote=“AnonHB” post=14049]The point of him being there was not so much as to pick up the sticks, but to provide the drummers with a spare in the event of a stick being dropped. At the end of the day they are only cadets not professional musicians.
Also as the bandmaster, he would be helping keep the timing of the band, helping the bands’ performance as a whole. So yes, he may not have been physically playing an instrument but he was definitely performing as part of the band.[/quote]
I am not up to speed with bands last time I was in one was when I was a Cadet but “bandmaster” seems like a made up position to me I know bands have directors of music but isnt this a position filled by a uniformed member of staff? prefably an officer?
Again im not sure how someone outside the band can help keep time (isnt that the bass drums job) as for helping with performance how would he do that if the band cant see him??
As brink rightly said sounds like peopel are defending something they do with very poor excuses even though we all know it wrong.
It’s just wrong. Why can’t you see that!
It’s not part of regulations so mag to grid him.
Get a grip liberalists!
This thread is becoming boring and circular.
Sadly POP, yes. I think it is. However, we mustn’t ignore the fact that these are the sort of things that have occurred in similar threads and they need to be quashed for the good of the ACO.
The issue is that posting on an anonymous internet forum will do sod all to effect the real world.
All going round in circles does is infuriate people.
Also available on YouTube is the 2012 Knowle remembrance parade where you can see the same CI in uniform, without any drumsticks (perhaps nobody had dropped any that year) marching casually behind the band. That video is in HD 
Right enough though - posting here is unlikely to help. Bringing the concerns to the attention of WWO Warwickshire & Birmingham Wing would be a better option as 2030Sqn are his responsibility.
Well that was 5 mins of my life wated reading this thread 