Hi I have been looking in to getting some webbing and wondering if there is any requirement for some pouches and not for others
If it’s for cadet activities, recent policy changes mean you can only have 2 ammo pouches and a water bottle pouch
I wouldn’t bother…
As @AlexCorbin says, some very clever person indeed has decreed that cadets may only have two ammo pouches and one water bottle pouch on belt kit, which effectively makes it useless, and within the cadet sphere it wasn’t that useful to start with.
The only activity that needs belt kit is shooting, and your wing and unit will be able to rustle up enough to cover your needs when you shoot.
You would be far better advised to get yourself a 30 litre daysack - this has far greater practicallity than belt kit in everything else you will do as a cadet, and you’d need one for shooting anyway - lunch, waterproofs, warm kit, drinks, a book -
The PLCE NI patrol pack is very good - very practical and utterly indestructible, as is the Berghaus Munro and Karrimor Sabre. Unlike belt kit, you can lob a £5 cover on it and hey presto, it’s a civvy daysack you can use on DofE or AT - and don’t be afraid of buying on eBay - the sacks I’ve mentioned will last 30 years or more.
I have a Karrimor SF Predator 30, great daysack.
The webbing policy change is silly, but a good enough reason to hold off spending money.
The policy is being updated which means it will be 4 pouches total to match the training vest. This is workable with CEFO, and I would say a double ammo pouch front left then 3 utility/water bottle pouches would be ideal.
Who writes these policies? 4 pouches is clearly an improvement, but doesn’t really work that well with how PLCE actually fits together.
Works fine for larger people - hopefully the option will remain for smaller people to have three pouches!
One ammo, one utility (cleaning kit, snacks, etc), one water bottle at the back.
If it’s good enough for the RAF, would seem good enough for us…
The problem is that you attach the shoulder straps to pouches which need to sit relatively far forwards, but also want a solid block of at least two utility/water pouches central to the back to help take the weight of any rucksack. 4 is therefore the minimum you need to achieve this.
You could of course cheat the limit and go single ammo on either side, but Single Ammo pouches are like rocking horse poo. (The Danish seem to have had more than we ever did.)
The training vest has 5 pouches, 7 if you count the zip pockets.
Another question is does two osprey double ammo pouches count as two pouches or one? It is the osprey equivalent of one PLCE double ammo pouch.
I suggest changing the policy to: “correctly fitted webbing”. Just check that the webbing is sensibly assembled before use, job jobbed. Don’t make a mountain out of a molehill.
Great. We were told to shut up or get banned…
So begrudgingly amended all of our webbing stock.
I would say it is 1 pouch.
You wouldn’t believe how many times this has been mentioned and the term ‘correctly fitted’ causes a lot of issues as who is qualified to confirm it is correctly fitted and where in our chain do they get trained.
How many noticed the change in the policy last week that was made with no communications going out as well surrounding the use of EAs?
The policy is owned by ATF at the moment with it being actually written by someone else at HQAC.
You don’t need specific training, you just need common sense. The problem is some people just don’t take the time to look at webbing and change it if it is wrong. If the pouches are bouncing around, it is badly fitted. Is it on the hips? If not it is badly fitted. Can the wearer fit their arm between the belt and themselves? If so it is badly fitted. I can quite easily tell if webbing is correctly fitted or not, and I have had no training beyond that given to be at basic level as an Army Cadet. Someone could quite easily write a one pager on the subject if it was really necessary.
Taking pouches off doesn’t normally solve the problem, it just makes it less noticeable.
Preaching to the converted/messenger, unfortunately that’s not how the command board see it.
I’d sooner see the Cadets allowed to wear any combination of weird pouches they wish on their webbing so long as a weight limit was set. That’s measurable in a very easy way pre-exercise and easy to take in to account the weight of ammo and water.
Respectfully disagree. The amount that - for example - I’d see a JL happily carry is very different to what I’d want a 12 year old to carry, and the amount they’re carrying would itself be dependent on what they’re doing.
I’ve said it before - if this whole ‘carrying too much’ is really seen as an issue, just have an extra document on the application to detail the load carrying plan.
Followed by a spec for what CEFO, CEMO, etc is to consist of “PLCE webbing and infantry bergen, average weight 20kg, no cadet to carry more than 25kg”.
The authorising officer can then look at that and decide if it’s reasonable (along indeed with the planning officer actually having to look at their own figures). Eg in my example if it’s for a regiment acquaint course then fine, if it’s for an introduction to FT for first class cadets then clearly not. But God forbid we allow any discretion in the regs for commanders!
Neither the PO or SPO have qualifications in how to assess suitable weight for an individual to carry over a certain type of terrain and this is the vicious circle you end up in (don’t ask about D of E and how much Cadets carry on that without this level of care). You could possibly set an age ranged limit of maximum weights for different types of terrain, ie roads = xx, flat open terrain = xx, cross country = xx but even using age is a limiting issue as some 13 year olds could carry a loaded bergen with GPMG on top. Others may struggle with their lunch.
Other than common sense?
Given that MLs don’t have any specific training in the same how come they’re allowed to make such decisions?
Example: Example Exercise Load Carrying Plan.pdf (16.7 KB)
If your webbing is packed properly, you shouldn’t need to worry about how much it weighs. You don’t need much in it. The bergen is where you need to worry.