Wearing two Progressive Flying Syllabus 'Wings'

Hi all

Can anyone clarify the circumstances that cadets can wear both the Gliding (G)and Aviation (A) wings, (if at all) ?

ACTO32 says

  1. Blue Wings Aviation Training Package (Blue ATP). Blue ATP builds on the FAM course introducing further aeronautical concepts. Expanded ground school training is consolidated in a PTT before a glider flight at a Volunteer Gliding Squadron (VGS). Upon successful completion of all three elements of the Blue ATP cadets will be awarded a certificate and Blue ATP (G) wings. The flight element of the Blue ATP may also be met by completing sortie profile No.1at an Air Experience Flight (AEF). Details can be found in ACTO 31- Air Experience Flights.

ACTO31 says

  1. Badges and Certificates. Upon successful completion of Blue and Bronze ATP courses, cadets become eligible for the award of the brevet and certificate appropriate to their course.

If a cadet attends an AEF and flys AEF Sortie 1, and then subsequently attends a VGS (or a AGS and VGS), and completes the Ground, Synthetic (PTT) and flying elements of the Blue ATP (or Bronze/ Silver) does this entitle them to wear both the Gliding (G)and Aviation (A) wings ?

Likewise if a cadet attends a a VGS (or a AGS and VGS), and completes the Ground, Synthetic (PTT) and flying elements of the Blue ATP and is thereforere awarded the Blue Gliding (G) wings (or also Bronze/ Silver) and subsequently attends an AEF and flys AEF Sortie 1 can they then also wear Aviation (A) wings ?

Further do any qualfying flights have to have happened since the introduction of the progressive syllabus, or can flights from prior to the syllabus introduction count ?

(AP1919 defines where the badges are to be placed when both are worn, but not the circumstances on which they may both be awared)

Any source to offical documentation confirming what the position is appreciated.

Many thanks in advance

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Yes you can wear both. G on the bottom.

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Details of what can be worn and where they are worn are found in AP1358C v2.0, Para 0418 onwards.

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Thanks - To clarify - I’m aware of where badges should be placed - its the circumstances that both can be worn that I’m interested in as its been suggested that only one set of Blue ‘Wings’ should be worn (the first to have been gained), as apparently the original intention of Progressive Training Training syllabus was that cadets would only undertake either AEF Sortie 1 or Gliding Sortie 1 (this seems to be confirmed by Annexe D of ACTO032 ‘Progressive Gliding and Flying Path’ - however there are cadets that will have done both.

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I misunderstood your question about the “position” it seems.

I don’t trust the organisation to have a coherent policy on the matter and certainly wouldn’t try to second-guess whatever the FTS people have in their brains in this regard. Hopefully somebody from an AEF or VGS will pitch in and possibly escalate the query.

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I wouldnt get my pants in a twist over a cader wearing blue a and g…they earnt it

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Worth bearing in mind here that a lot of AEF and VGS staff have reservations regarding the progressive wings training. It appears the views of the people at the coal face weren’t sought which has resulted in policy that raises issues such as this!
Despite questions being raised we still have ACTO’s that are open to interpretation from wing to wing.
The ACTO should make these issues clear. AEF and VGS staff will continue to issue wings and certificates but have no influence on how or where a cadet decides to wear said wings…
Escalations need to come from the respective wings or regions…?

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Honestly, if I had both and a definitive ruling came through that you can only wear one and it’s the first one you were awarded, I’d wear the gliding ones regardless of when I was awarded them. I feel like there’s more of a chance I’d progress with that. That’s just me being me.

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Well…There’s no accounting for some folk…:wink:

I think the chance of progressing with any of them is slim.


On this point my unit (like most I think) has been added to an announcement about the new flying and gliding syllabus. But the link is dead and I can’t find the referenced IBN on SharePoint. Am I being blind or do others have the same problem?

Same problem.

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I’m waiting with baited breath to see if they remove the daft situation where cadets can wear two sets of wings!

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This is stopping. The wings will have RAFAC in the middle (as opposed to A or G) regardless and you can only wear one set.

Although if they have already had the old style badges issued they can continue to wear them until they get issued a new badge for the next level up. Then they will be expected to jump onto the new dress regs.

The good book 1358C will apparently be updated soon.


Historically that’s always been the case if you had FS&GS. It’s just become worse with the introduction of the PTA

An IBN has just been released which may help with some questions here! Also there is this attachement about the badges.

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Some nicely designed badges there a lot like the RAFs and a bit surprised they were approved. These two are really alike

So? We wear rank badges that are the same. We have parachuting badges that are the same. Why does it matter if we have a similar badge to our parent organisation?

No one is likely to mistake them for actual pilots.


Indeed. Now if they were to allow CFAVs who qualify to wear the silver and gold badges then there could potentially be confusion. But I guess that won’t happen (at least not until there is a critical mass of cadets having to remove it when they become CFAVs and getting disgruntled).

CFAVs wearing cadet badges… nope.

But there should be an RAF sanctioned flying badge for CFAVs.