Walking leader qualifications

Pretty much all of the entry level qualifications (Lowland Leader, Paddlesport Instructor, MIAS L1/2) should be able to be delivered locally. The only one that is difficult to provide locally via the CFAV route is CWI due to the course director requirements. To an extent the provision of these depends on whether you have appropriately qualified course directors within the Region, however there has been an active programme over the past few years to provide LLA and MIAS course directors in each Region. Certainly in W&W there are providers of LLA (3), Paddlesport Instructor (3), Paddlesport Leader (2), MIAS L1/2 (2) so all bases are covered.

Even if you donā€™t have a local CFAV course director, if you gather a cohort of people together who want a particular course then it is often cheaper for the organisation to pay a local provider to deliver the course than get 12 people to travel to Windermere or Fairbourne.

Iā€™d also add even if your regionā€™s course isnā€™t actually local to you thereā€™s nothing stopping you applying for a course in a neighbouring region if itā€™s nearer.

Iā€™m in W&W, but the SW courses are closer to home for me so Iā€™ve always done those.

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Definitely - courses are sometimes limited by the venues required so canā€™t always be done on your doorstep, but should be available within the Region which is often closer than one of the national centres.

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Thanks thatā€™s really interesting. Iā€™ll have another look on my current regionā€™s SharePoint page to see if anything is on there for curiousity. Feel a little jealous if some Wings/regions/areas are doing more than others!

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Donā€™t assume if you canā€™t find anything yourself that nothing exists; bear in mind that planning has been, and still is, ad hoc and hard to do given the current situation. Have a chat with your WATTO/RATTO to see what the local opportunities are/will be.

For example, there currently arenā€™t any W&W course dates planned / advertised because itā€™s super difficult to plan with any certainty - so as and when I feel reasonably confident to put something out, I am doing with just a calling notice. As soon as we get a bit more clarity on residential aspects that will open up the planning much more.

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Hereā€™s an interesting question Iā€™ve just been asked.

If you are running a mass expedition with multiple groups out and some of your LLAā€™s or HMLā€™s donā€™t have the Expedition Skills Module can you revert to the straight 1:10 once they are back in camp if they are all staying in the same place?

So if you have say 3 groups out and only 2 staff with ESM for example.

Thatā€™s what Iā€™ve always done, treating the overnight camp as a separate activity with different supervision (but all under one SMS).

Weā€™ve had staff with BELA, so they supervise the camp and some lowland walking, while an HML can do more challenging terrain but doesnā€™t affect the overnight supervision ratio.

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Yeah that was my immediate reaction. As long as they are camping in the terrain that they leader is qualified in all is well. It was just one of those questions that surprised me as I donā€™t know many LLA or HML who donā€™t have an ESM.

Itā€™s the challenge of getting onto an ESM course at the moment. Anyone qualified in the last 3 years hasnā€™t had a chance really.

How come?
Loads of courses throughout pandemic via Mountain Training. UK wide.

But almost no courses through RAFAC. Staff can choose to pay privately but they shouldnā€™t have to really when RAFAC funded courses should be available. Of course we could just outsource all walking quals training, which would be much more flexible for staff to complete.

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For several hundred pounds as opposed to the Ā£30 that a RAFAC Course coats.

Also if Iā€™m not mistaken other providers donā€™t automatically build remote supervision into their courses which means you would have to do an ESTC on top?

What courses are you talking about?
DofE??

Lowland leader includes all thatā€¦ and Hill moorlandā€¦

Oh and moneyā€¦ if you havent got anyā€¦ ā€˜your committee should pull their fingers outā€™ā€¦

Never had sufficient course availability where I am.
Have always used 3rd party.

Just get money raised. Job done.

LLA or HML doesnā€™t include what you need to remote supervise groups, or take them out overnight.

The Expedition Skills Module covers all the campcraft and over night stuff. Also some route planning and remote supervision.

The DofE ESTC course is what DofE require you to have no matter what qual you have to remote supervise groups. Most RAFAC ESM courses include ESTC at the same time.

Yes ok.
But the ESM is just a bolt on for both LLA and HML.

not exactly rocket science.

Frankly, totally pointless having lla or hml without esm.

Not really. It allows you to conduct day walks still. Which for us is great as you can take cadets out training for DofE. And in the outdoor instructor world thatā€™s all you need if you want to do day walks and have no interest in DofE type stuff.

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No they donā€™t, remote supervision isnā€™t included in any of the NGB courses, they focus on leading groups.

In the RAFAC we tend to add the DofE ESTC (which provides Remote Supervision) into our Expedition Skills Module but you wouldnā€™t get that from a 3rd party provider as itā€™s not part of the Course. So you would need to do an additional ESTC to enable you to deliver DofE.

I thought DofE only recommended it but that we as an organisation required it?

Why would you get the committee to pay 10 times the price for courses that we run in house? I know training can be hit and miss but certainly in both the Regions Iā€™ve been in for the last 10 years there are courses every 8 weeks or so.

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You are likely correct on that! AFAIK DofE donā€™t actually require anything as such, and leave it down to each AAP/LO to define what is required, they just have recommendations!

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Yeah they are very much a ā€œwe recommend, but do what you wantā€ organisation.

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