@redowling is it possible to do an ESM as a Stand Alone Course if you already have a non Mountain Training Trekking qualification?
I have a member of staff who isn’t current by a number of years so who needs a trio out with a technical advisor but who also doesn’t have a remote supervision course.
I suspect ten answer is no, but it would be really convenient if it was yes!
So I guess the answer is no from a Mountain Training perspective (they need to have passed a Lowland Leader Assessment). However, the pragmatist in me says I guess they could still attend the weekend and go through the syllabus - they just wouldn’t get a ticket at the end of it - but the tech advisor could say they are good to go?
This does rely on it being an ‘internal’ course - i.e. provided by a RAFAC course director and run under our authorisations I guess. Although not having the formal ‘tick’ might cause issues on the remote supervision bit.
Would the DofE ESTC course not fill the gap for remote supervision?
It would but I was hoping to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Also there aren’t many ESTC courses being run anymore as most people who needed them have them and with ESM doing the same job most people who would need to do remote Supervision are getting it with their award.
I would like to do more walking and try and develop my skills in this area, in time possibly do the lowland leader qualification.
Probably a stupid question, but I’ve looked at the skills handbook on the mountain training website and what, in your opinion, is the best way to learn all the skills required? I know odd bits here and there but starting from a fairly low level.
In my opinion the only skills you really need to have nailed on before going on your training course are the ability to read a map, (1:50,000 & 1:25,000) and the ability to plan a route.
The course itself does a pretty good job of giving you most of the rest of the Skills and then you really polish them on your consolidation walks between Training and Assessment.
If there is someone in your Wing who is already qualified getting them to take you out for a walk or two is a really good way to get going. Or if they offer a Bronze NNAS Course (National Navigation Award Scheme) where you are jump on a Course with the Cadets, Bronze NNAS is pitched pretty much where you need to be for Navigation at LLA level.
Thanks, that is really helpful, I will look into both options you suggested. I think the skills checklist scared me a little!
The skills checklist is a really good tool for benchmarking your own knowledge - and whether it’s something you do without thinking, or know nothing about (and the mid point where you understand the concept but have to think about it when putting it into practice).
As @daws1159 says, don’t let it put you off - really it’s more a tool just to see where you are at a point in time and also to help record your training and build your action plan. Ultimately the best way to learn the skills required are to go on a training course - as long as you go with a basic ability to read a map (which you need to be able to do in order to have done your 10 walks before you attend training), all of the other skills and so on are discussed on the course. You should leave with a decent action plan which will set you up for how you structure your consolidation between training and assessment.
Was there anything in particular on the checklist which drew your attention?
I’ve had another look at the candidate handbook and the skills checklist and I feel a bit better as I think it’s all stuff I can learn through a combination of activities and some, such as the group leadership stuff, I would imagine would come more through observing others?
There is a lot there which I think initially was daunting but obviously I understand why it’s all there and I actually like that there is focus on understanding the area you are walking in.
I think getting out on some short walks will help me initially.
I guess for me, I’m using the lowland leader checklist as a way of benchmarking my skills so I can ensure I’m safe and competent when I go out with my family and then I can consider if I want to do this in the cadet world and get qualified.
With the group leadership skills, I learned a lot on my training course and by shadowing qualified people in my wing. Eventually I did the leading with the qualified person supervising.
I think the key thing is to get out as much as you can with cadets, but also on your own/with peers to gain that experience.
So when you do this, look at each situation you encounter - e.g. going through a farmyard, crossing a stile, navigating a slippy/eroded track and consider how you would manage people who may not be known to you (could be clients or cadets) in that environment.
That thought exercise is often a good way to start - when you get to a training course then you will get input on those situations, best practice, alternative approaches etc which might expand your thinking further.
Thanks both, I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to respond.
One more question. What format do your walks take with cadets typically, do you lead the whole thing or do you delegate bits to cadets (obviously you plan it all first but give them the option to practice)?
I’ve never actually been on a adult led walk as a Cadet (we’d do it ourselves and CFAVs would meet us at checkpoints) so sorry if that sounds a stupid question! I’m kind of imagining it just like a group walk/ramble?
The others are way more experienced than me, but personally it depends on what level the cadets are at.
I’ve been on walks where the CFAV does everything and just charges about with the cadets in their wake - I don’t think this achieves a great deal…
I like to give them all a chance to navigate and lead the group around with supervision from me. Builds their confidence and their skills.
I always try and choose routes with some points of interest or viewpoints and might give the cadets a super quick bullet point talk or point out landmarks.
I have also from time to time gone through emergency actions with them - get the storm shelter out and stuff and show them how to use it.
I think it very much depends on what your objectives are. Is it a training walk leading up to a DofE exped or just an opportunity to get them outside.
I joined in on the L&SER (i guess) Walking Qualification Pathway Teams meeting yesterday (similar to the paddlesport meeting the week before). Very interesting stuff - certainly will need to focus on one or the other.
My question is, obviously there is a need for old school map and compass work, but can we plan routes/take ideas from Apps such as Komoot and plot them onto the map?
You definitely can! You need to be able to do it the ‘traditional’ way but on my LLA training as an example we looked at digital planning tools briefly!
Indeed - digital tools are part of the real world so their use and benefits is discussed. However you can’t use them on your assessment - that’s back to the old school map & compass.
That looks suspiciously like a humble brag suggesting that your region may have things squared away???
No bragging - There was also a climbing chat the week before - but i missed it because i got the dates confused in my diary!
They have been trying hard 
Quite a few of these sessions have been run to introduce AT quals to staff who don’t know what’s what. Basically showing the pathway to getting on the AT ladder in each discipline. Here’s hoping they were recorded so they can be shared rather than reinventing the wheel in the other 5 regions!
I missed that - couldn’t have gone anyway due to work - is it recorded?
I did the LLA course a few years ago but hasn’t been an assessment in my area since. Wondering if I’d need to re-do the training?