I fully recall the OC Conference when the then WATTO stood up and told us we all needed NGBs to do things, which brought some grumblings, BUT went on, once we had them we wouldn’t need to seek approval if we stayed within the scope of the qualification. Still waiting for that to happen 17/18 years later. Ever think you’ve been sold a pup?
A couple went for ML but most of us stayed at BELA and TBH its conditions covers a heck of a lot of the UK and more than adequate for our needs, which is mostly upto Silver DofE.
I think the organisation is now far too over cautious. If it’s felt someone is over stepping the mark, deal with them directly, I dunno can’t run activities for a period.
Rather than starting a new thread and I suspect I know who is going to be able to answer this @redowling!
Joint Services Mountain Leader Training, is that course subject to the same restrictions as the Mountain Training Course for us with regards to the 2 Years?
My reading of the ACATI is that they can use it within their remit (below the snow line and no steep ground) permanently but could do with confirmation.
Yes, that’s correct - they can use it within their remit. The course includes an element of assessment so it’s not quite the same as the civilian Mountain Leader training.
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Excellent thanks, I’m in the process of kicking a number of ML(T) staff who now can’t use their qualifications so that could’ve been quite embarrassing!
Fair one. As a slight aside, we’ve now been written out of eligibility to attend JSAT courses completely so I expect it will only be the odd service personnel we see with those qualifications in the future.
How come? Not that I ever attended but it seems a bit odd, especially if regular service instructors are still eligible for our courses.
Various reasons, but largely predicated on ‘not part of the armed forces’, JSP419 not applying because of that, and JSP814 specifying we should be qualified in accordance with civilian recognised NGB quals.
So another casualty of the CFC then!
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CIs/SNCOs were never part of the RAFVR, though and I believe were eligible?
Correct, they were. But now no-one is.
To be fair, they were hard to get on anyway.
Paddling courses in particular were a right PITA, they weren’t automatically BC compliant, you needed a signed off RAF swim test and had no priority for bookings.
And it’s not like our own courses are over subscribed…
Yep, they come with a load of military bull that isn’t really necessary or relevant for us, plus as you say, may not necessarily equate to a civilian qualification as they rely on the instructor being qualified appropriately within that NGB.
Only down side is I had my eye set on a cheeky weeks parachuting 
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I did ML training at Llanrwst as a CI, and got both the military and civilian ML(T) stamps (in the grand scheme of things, I guess not many civilians got the military ML(T)) - there was an assessment that week too but they’d bought in an assessor so that the candidates would get NGB rather than just the military ML
@redowling is it possible to do an ESM as a Stand Alone Course if you already have a non Mountain Training Trekking qualification?
I have a member of staff who isn’t current by a number of years so who needs a trio out with a technical advisor but who also doesn’t have a remote supervision course.
I suspect ten answer is no, but it would be really convenient if it was yes!
So I guess the answer is no from a Mountain Training perspective (they need to have passed a Lowland Leader Assessment). However, the pragmatist in me says I guess they could still attend the weekend and go through the syllabus - they just wouldn’t get a ticket at the end of it - but the tech advisor could say they are good to go?
This does rely on it being an ‘internal’ course - i.e. provided by a RAFAC course director and run under our authorisations I guess. Although not having the formal ‘tick’ might cause issues on the remote supervision bit.
Would the DofE ESTC course not fill the gap for remote supervision?
It would but I was hoping to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Also there aren’t many ESTC courses being run anymore as most people who needed them have them and with ESM doing the same job most people who would need to do remote Supervision are getting it with their award.
I would like to do more walking and try and develop my skills in this area, in time possibly do the lowland leader qualification.
Probably a stupid question, but I’ve looked at the skills handbook on the mountain training website and what, in your opinion, is the best way to learn all the skills required? I know odd bits here and there but starting from a fairly low level.
In my opinion the only skills you really need to have nailed on before going on your training course are the ability to read a map, (1:50,000 & 1:25,000) and the ability to plan a route.
The course itself does a pretty good job of giving you most of the rest of the Skills and then you really polish them on your consolidation walks between Training and Assessment.
If there is someone in your Wing who is already qualified getting them to take you out for a walk or two is a really good way to get going. Or if they offer a Bronze NNAS Course (National Navigation Award Scheme) where you are jump on a Course with the Cadets, Bronze NNAS is pitched pretty much where you need to be for Navigation at LLA level.
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Thanks, that is really helpful, I will look into both options you suggested. I think the skills checklist scared me a little!