Yes, basically that. This year we have both MTUK Lowland Leader and Sports Leaders LEL running in the region, so there is choice available to candidates. I think that HML is very achievable for ex-Gold DofE types and that LL, as a result, has less of a niche to fill. It’s something we keep reviewing and there are definitely arguments on both sides, but we are sticking with LEL for now.
Amen!!
I was a very active Scout prior to Cadet, then took every AT (trekking/camping) opportunity as a Cadet but as soon as i became Staff despite years (decade) of experience and local knowledge, was marked as a liability until BEL was completed (this is prior to LLA days).
what was most frustrating was the time required to complete the course. All weekends (6 iirc) were mandatory and at least one on each years course i couldn’t make due to pre-existing commitments, and so was three years until i knew i could commit to the training days advertised. but was still a full 12 months to complete the training, the 30 hours of activity and assessment before i was “useful” as a AT Staff member
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If this is the case then fair play - I was led to believe it was only BEL on offer. Our rationale for switching wholly was the minimum spend enforced by Sports Leaders and the volume of paperwork required.
Probably one for the RATTOs, but I wonder if there’s scope for 1 Wg per Rg (or NACATCs) to continue SportsLeadersUK registration and deliver regional BEL courses delivered as a week long package.
Centres whereby candidates can be taken through the BEL package without the need to relentless weekends of training. Helping to ensure that there are opportunities for everybody to access the first rung on the AT ladder.
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A good shout I think in terms of the staff offer, but it might be difficult to find a Wing who wanted to accept that financial / admin pain. I know what my answer would be…
You might be better off discarding the Sports Leaders faff and just offering a bespoke in house course which covers (broadly) the same information - allowing those with little prior experience to gain what they need and then move to Lowland Leader.
That’s the sort of approach my Wing are taking (or are planning to anyway).
LLA is the goal but there are local training opportunities offered to staff/senior cadets who aren’t yet at that level but are interested in doing the qualification at some point in the future. There’s no in-house qualification at the end but it does help people develop from zero.
The WATTO wants to get people who have been through the LLA pipeline to help out and give prospective candidates tips and advice on what to expect.
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I think that makes much more sense, get the WATTO (or their appointed minion) to run some training for Staff who feel like they need it.
I would look at running a Staff only Bronze NNAS for those interested and then some peer learning sessions. (Almost like the top up your logbook sessions they run at NACATC).
How far do you have to walk before it becomes a trek? Can you trek around a field and as long as you get back to the start you haven’t gone anywhere. I understood that trekking was going from A and ending up at B.
It’s not about distance, it’s what the organisation decides to define trekking as:
Trekking, for the purpose of the RAF Air Cadets Adventure Training (RAFACAT) scheme, covers walking in lowland, remote or mountainous country.
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It’s not a great definition though - as all of the land is either lowland or mountainous, and thus taken completely literally anything we do involving walking is trekking…
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Which is surely the point of the definition, to stop people arguing about what is and isn’t, it’s everything!
its a nice idea.
given most/100% of my walks are either leaving from Squadron out of town and around the local area and back or drive to a car park and circular route back to the SOV it would seem all the effort in getting a BEL would be unnecessary!!
(I would also add that when I have been walking in ML country (with an ML i will add) its been from Car park in a circular route back to the car park. so if it were A to B where B is different to A, then it is a very wide definition that would be widely open to abuse
SO, are we really, really saying that an outdoor map-reading lesson is “Trekking” ?
If it’s further afield from your unit than an ‘adjacent safe restricted area’ then yes, the organisation is saying that. Ultimately you are still responsible for a group of young people in that environment.
If anyone knows Bristol; would a map reading lesson on the Clifton downs be classed as trekking if it was 5 miles away from the Sqn building?
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I dont know Bristol at all. Couldnt point to it on a map.
But i know it will be classed as trekking. You have to have a qualified staff member and be in ratio.
If that was actually the case, this organisation has gone too far.
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It is the case. To a point i do not disagree with you. The organisations pendulum has swung for years to far in the direction of “Safety First”.
Your WATTO may take a pragmatic approach to going to a park for a bit of map reading training and allow it. I know mine wouldn’t and i suspect most if not all would make the same decision.
Its more the case that, at what point of remoteness/danger do you need someone qualified and competent?
The organisation is not allowing for a Gray area where some staff will take the mick and get someone hurt. I cant really blame them.
To be fair, this isnt really anything new! These rules have been in place since the early 00s. Its whether or not people choose to follow them. Our Wg has been pretty rigid in its application of the ACATIs (and ACTOs before them!) since the whole CTE thing went and NGBs were brought in. The only difference now is we’re using SMS to organise it rather than photocopies of maps and bouncing things backwards and forwards in hardcopy!
You go off sqn, you have the right staff in place and do the SMS accordingly.
Whilst I agree that this can seem overkill for a map and compass practice in a local park, once it’s done, you are covered. If you’re not covered, you are personally liable.
There is also that handy “clone button” on SMS. So if it is something routine, you can clone it, check the paperwork for changes and resubmit it.
Perhaps the organisation (and the cadets) would benefit from looking at the process from the other direction: if it needs these rules to protect it from idiot staff, why does it recruit and retain idiot staff?
The Clifton Downs exemple is a good one - my children (16, 9, and 5) play on Clifton Downs quite regularly, they eat ice cream there, and they’ve been to the circus there quite a few times. The only genuine objective dangers are not getting hypothermia or falling down the Avon Gorge, it’s traffic and female cadets being chatted up by Bristol university students having a picnic - yet what’s concentrated on is dangers that barely exist.
The test should be ‘would this be safe for any normally sentient adult with no specialist quals to take their own children?’ - if several thousand people manage to take their children to Clifton Downs for a mooch and an ice cream every day without incident then either the ACO has got it’s knickers in a twist about something that doesn’t exist, or it’s *really * recruiting the wrong people as staff.
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