If we worked as you suggest HQAC and points below would fall into disarray as they wouldn’t be able pin things on people. This is the only reason we have a rank structure. It doesn’t benefit us as individuals, outside the occasion of PTD.
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We can have a rank structure, terms of reference, even contracts and nominated blame (as opposed to general liability for one’s actions) without HM signing a damned thing.
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Hi all,
Just a couple of observations from me. Regrettably, I cannot reveal my sources so you may chose to disregard this post if you wish.
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RAFAC Officers are now all on Cadet Force Commissions, less those who are required to retain them to comply with the Air Navigation Order.
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ACF Officers still hold an Army Reserve General List Type B Commission. However, these will be removed NLT Oct 18 to give parity with RAFAC Officers. Some people will retain their legacy commissions where required (e.g. serving Reservists, ex Regulars) and will in effect hold dual commission status.
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New Commission Scrolls will be issued shortly for all. However, the contractor that prints commissioning scrolls on behalf of DBS is only contracted to produce ~200 per month. The new requirement to suddenly print another X thousand for every CF Officer is outside of the contractual requirements and there is no money for this. So they will drip through eventually, unless more money is found.
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The CFC has been Gazetted. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/62208/supplement/3146
VBW,
EP
Most of us know. However they still have not done the mass-relinquishment and mass-appointment
Furthermore, the Royal Warrant states:
I’ve also heard this from a few reliable sources. HQAC presumed the printing wouldn’t be an issue, the contractor said it’s not free and that’s why no one has their scroll yet.
8 posts were merged into an existing topic: ACP20 Pers Form 1-19
Split topic to discuss volunteer agreement in a more fitting place.
Surely this Schedule to the Royal Warrant specifies that VR(T) will continue to hold such commissions until relinquished or resigned? Therefore no need for mass relinquishments/recommissioning?
What is odd in the different treatment of Chaplains: RAFAC are not to be commissioned, whereas Sea Cadets’ and Army Cadets’ Chaplains are? Who so?
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I would agree, or unless extension of service is due…
I would also agree, however HQAC seem to think that all non-AEF VR commissions are terminated from 2 Dec 18…
I was briefed recently that VR(T) commissions were no longer for set periods and that continuance from age 65 was subject to “Annual Review”, so no “extensions”.
As to date, the Royal Warrant came into force on 1 November 2017, so if there were to be a change, who conjured up 2 December?
It also applies to all RAFAC uniformed staff.
It’s on bader, and the document linked in an earlier message
By 65 shouldn’t you be wanting to bin it anyway?
I don’t know many ATC types of any persuasion who see themselves in uniform past 60, let alone 65. I know I don’t.
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Those past those ages just can’t let go of the pomp and circumstance I suspect.
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Dear Teflon and bob
Can I politely ask who you are to judge the age at which anyone should want to ‘bin it’, and assume it’s ‘pomp and circumstance’ that keeps individuals interested and active?
I’m somewhere in between those ages Teflon states and just spent an afternoon as RCO.
The youngsters had a superb time, each and every one; RAF and Army cadets.
I’ll be doing an Army central camp early July and will be ECO for our contingent.
Please don’t make bland, sweeping assumptions about age.
You can’t avoid it you know.
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Teflon appears to hate everything about the Corps anyway though, so hardly surprising that he doesn’t see himself staying in for very long…
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Not a case of not liking it, more a case of being frustrated by seeing a once great organisation being run into the ground, decisions that have no basis in common sense just to exert greater control for no reason other than to prop up and perpetuate a fragile higher organisation. Here we are powerless to stop it. I’ve looked at the VoV thing on s/point and you get a sense of the people who have contributed trying to effect a better outcome for the organisation, urinating into wind, as even our highly paid “decision makers” are just pawns.
I think you get to point where it’s time to let others do it. Problem is you don’t see many coming through, who you think will be around long enough. Judging by the OC turnover of some squadrons, where the younger OCs have left after a short time in post and older ones going in to try and give them some stability. The problem is the older you get and children less of a constraint, you want to do more things and not feel tied to the organisation. One of old mates has lost 4 potentials for him to hand over to as they have left the Corps due to work and or family. I’ve got a CI on the squadron but he’s not prepared to commission for another 12 months.
As for the upper age limit, let’s not forget until a few years ago the upper age limit was 55 for uniformed staff and the change to 65 was made apparently to avoid age discrimination charges. However I think it was done as some of the ACMB were well passed the retirement age and there isn’t the number of new staff coming in, so the older ones among us needed to be kept on. In our sector there is one squadron with more than 5 effective staff, whereas go back 10-15 years not one of these squadrons was in that situation. Currently of the 6, 2 squadrons run by people in their late 40s and 4 over 50, two of them are nearer 60 than 50. Cut the age and it would force some of the younger ones to take up the cudgel. Where are the 25-40 year olds?
Given there are many who have the opinion that old people should leave as they are out of touch with youngsters, I would say to those you know what to do. If we lost this BS situation of needing an officer to run a squadron and others only do it on a temporary basis, I think the organisation would benefit greatly. Older uniformed staff could hang up their hats and maybe stay on offering experience etc.
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The fact that SCC and ACF chaplains are commissioned could be to do with the difference between BA, RN and RAF chaplains. BA chaplains hold one of several chaplain ranks, RN chaplains are just chaplains and RAF chaplains hold an actual rank.
A bit arrogant for me to be honest, Ive been an adult volunteer with the ATC since 1990, after being in the Armed Forces!..Regular, reserve and have RAF, RAuxAF, TAVR T shirts to boot! The Air Cadets is not the armed Forces and I really can’t believe people are still going on about whether they have a military commission or not, for Pete’s sake get over it. You have the same status as a scout leader or a youth club leader. You meet in a wooden hut in a community, just like the Scouts! You are never going to have a position in the Armed Forces, you don’t get credit with ILM for your volunteering in the Air Cadets unlike reservists or regular service personnel for their military service, you have not been attested, you have little or very limited training in the role with in the ATC, enough to be a youth leader. Accept that you are a volunteer in a youth organisation. Its a bitter pill to swallow but you need to or go. I took the pill as there are greater things to me than agonising if I am RAFVRTor CFC. The Air Cadets is a youth organisation, we do great things in helping guide young people and support aviation and to some degree aerospace, we probably make a difference but am not sure its big enough to measure on an economic scale - individual yes but who knows and its a topic for another thread. I was going to quit the ATC some years ago as I was hacked off with the bollox and politics of the ATC. I’ve been in 3 Wings and various squadrons due to moving with work - years a go one wing you needed to be a mason to get a commisison, another you needed to be a professional with a degree and so on, (I am not a mason, have a post grad degree and very senior!) but then my daughter decided to join and I started getting more engaged again as being ‘Dad’s taxi’ got me more involved with the cadet activities. So I have stepped back from the politics, focus on activities and training of cadets, and I’ve never been more motivated or happier in my HOBBY! I intend to drop out of uniform in a few years time as I have no ambition to be the oldest and fattest Flt Lt in the world. The reason I stay in uniform? Its because I can influence things, I enjoy participating in activities with cadets from parades to fieldcraft and frankly when I join with other youth leaders on Rememberance Day parades - ATC, ACF, SCC, scouts guides and so on I’m in uniform and its my little bit of paying respect, and I bloody earned the medals and uniform! As a CI I’m excluded from coming out to play - I could join with the RBL or RAFA but thats not with the cadets is it and thats what being a CFAV is about - supporting cadets, being an example and giving back to them your experience and values, not winging about whether you have a military commisison - time gentlemen, time to move on!
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FoolsGold, I never became an Officer in the Air Cadets to be part of the Armed Forces. I did it to give back some of the support I got as a cadet from my staff to the new cadets.
We are part of the RAF (Headed by a RAF Officer, wear uniforms supplied by the RAF, do activities provided by the RAF, have accommodation provided by the public purse, etc), but we are members of the Youth Organisation part of the RAF.
All the vitriol , which you have added to, about “You lot of Walts should stop whining, because you’re not real officers anyway and you have never risked your life in service of the Queen” has made me question why I spend so much time on Air Cadets.
I am a CO, but I do not get Airmen to salute me, or give orders to them because I am not in charge of them. I do not visit Officers Messes across the country and when asked, I say I am an instructor in the Air Cadets, not an Officer in the RAF!
After all this “You’re not and never have been in the RAF” stuff, I found it very interesting to receive all the requests from the RAF to support events the celebrate RAF100, as they had ran out of personnel. The RAF100 parade was very impressive, but that was a third of the whole RAF and they still needed cadets to bolster the numbers on TV. As far as I can tell, the RAF100 baton would have been dropped many times if not carried by lots of members of an Organisation that you say is not the RAF!
My beef about the new commission was the chronic waste of money, paperwork and staff time in changing something that wasn’t broke, not because I wanted to be part of an organisation I didn’t feel part of anyway.
I have yet to receive anything formal to say my commission has changed, all I have is some expensive rank slides! It has been FUBAR’d from the start and it is still not fixed! Waste of time!
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Yes you do sound a bit arrogant, you would make a better point by writing more calmly. Unless it was your intention to stir the dirt. It is a confusing rant are you a CI or a Flt Lt?
regards,
I sincerely hope that he DIDN’T say that. There’s a lot of posters on here who actually have…
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