Over the past 10 years the ACO has purchased through direct funding and charitable donations many big ticket items for the ATC/ACO. These include the Regional Activity Centres (RACs), mobile climbing towers ACE platforms, and popup marquees. Many 10s maybe 100s of thousands of pounds have been spent on these items in purchase costs and then on on-going maintenance and repair.
Having only used the ace platform and the marquees, never been to a RAC and never even seen a climbing tower in use. My question is do you think that the ACO has spent its money wisely in the first place and have these items been value for money in the long term?
Most of the big purchases you mention were pushed through by one person in particular!
One recruiting marquee for 30 Squadrons spread over a wide area - waste
RACs, full of poor standard equipment (aside from the sim itself) with only some having beds - waste
ACE, seen it once manned by scruffy staff along with scruffy cadets - waste
Tower, great idea but no courses provided to qualify people to operate or tow - waste
Overall no.
It would be interesting to see usage data for the ACE, climbing walls and RACs, as this would determine the value gained from them.
Most interesting would be a breakdown by squadron using them.
The thing with big ticket items is they attract headlines and initial furore, which then tails off. IIRC the ACE was/were purchased for the ATC.
A marquee exists in the Wing, but it is just too much aggro to collect and take back, for a weekend here and there. Similarly the ACE, if I knew where it/one was. Weâve got a 3m*3m pop up that we adorn with things and does the job and it goes in the boot of a car.
There seems to be a number of indoor climbing walls popping up all over the country, that you can pay for and use with instructors included, which to me seems a much more sensible route, as it could be used for a couple of hours in the evening or weekend. Iâve seen a mobile climbing wall at a few local fetes run by an outdoor centre and if the ATC ones are similar, you would struggle to find somewhere to use it. Again there is the problem of transporting and someone qualified to use it. Some of my cadets have used the one mentioned and a fine time they had. I think the ACE would hit problems with transporting as well for most squadrons to use.
I do feel there is a lot more that could be done to assist squadrons promoting the Corps. Afterall the mobile things are for promoting the Corps and most promotion is done locally.
From my perspectiveâŚ
One recruiting tent for 15 squadrons spread over a wide area. Many units not bothering to book it but us using it regularly. fantastic resource and much better than pitching a glum-looking 12x12 at an event. They stand out and they scream âAir Cadetsâ.
They have a tendency to be assembled by idiots and suffer damage as a result. It doesnât appear that maiintenance and spares had been factored into the running costs.
The flagship RAC is fine I am sure but your experience will vary depending on where you go. From a squadron perspective I find it difficult to justify the trip and hassle to go to the RAC 75 miles away to do things many of which we can do more locally - being on an RAF station is in itself simply nit a big enough draw. They are quite handy for courses.
Iâve seen our local one but never used it.
Utter waste of money - thankfully it was not our money.
A fantastic resource for major PR activities and an assured draw for the public, though mostly primary-school aged kids. Like the marquee it screams âAir Cadetsâ though.
We manage to run courses for erection and operation and should be doing more this winter but transporting the thing is a ball-ache (need trailer on a F600 and a vehicle that can haul 2.125 tonnes) and up here that mostly ends up as a burden on 1 individual.
One recruiting marquee for 30 Squadrons spread over the Wing
worked for us, although as we are local to Wing helps in collecting/dropping off. the downside being a Wing unit it had no ownership and thus wasnât looked after. the bags soon tore due to Cadets dragging them. as such our Sqn purchased its own marquee with the Sqnâs own details plastered over it.
RACs,
not been to our allocated RAC which I understand to be fully equipped from what is pushed out by the Wing, but
- requires a familiarity course to be able to use it, and only seen one offered in 18months
- has limited appeal over what we have locally other than the ability to accommodate large numbersâŚthe numbers we donât see on Squadron and although seen on a Wing level for weekend courses are closer more convenient places to use
we actually have a RAC closer to us that is out of area, which is used for the Radio courses but it is only two allocated classrooms and an office, none of the other âkitâ which is typical at other centres.as such question its success as a RAC
ACE
I see this each year at RIAT and is often mistaken for a toilet blockâŚnot sure what it offers the Cadets and as an engagement tool is poor when compared to other âattractionsâ available on site.
I did see and visit one at London for the Military Tournament one year but seemed to be run by a single stressed out Flt Lt who didnât really know what he was doing
I have to agree with Charlie on this one. I am more than happy to use it myself but other than another lack of availability of courses to use it, understand that it cant be used on a Squadron level needs to be a Wing event or larger
I have also heard our tower needs to be driven by an MT driver and vehicle due to errors made in the past by ATC Staff, but of course they (MT) only work office hours so inconvenient for them to work around the lives of working Staff, and we (ATC) are at the bottom of any priority list for MT operationally so is difficult to get a driver and suitable vehicle confirmed
again I see this at RIAT and is actually very popular both with the Cadets and the public, but the restrictions on its use (ours at least) both in terms of gaining the ticket to be permitted to use it, and having an event deemed worthwhile enough to use it, and then the required MT sorted its a great idea we cant use.
Climbing tower: We have a mobile tower located within the wing, it gets heavy use and there are many staff qualâd to set it up and run it so thatâs definitely value for money.
RAC: We also have a(or possible the) RAC within the wing as well, so that gets used a lot as well for field weekends and activity weekends on the camp.
Marquee: Not sure how much use this gets but I imagine itâs rolled out at most large events (Easily every weekend throughout the summer.)
ACE: Only seen this at RIAT, I would doubt many cadets within our wing will ever get to use one.
Marquees, ACE platform, climbing walls - never seen any
RAC - have used it a few times - good value
Money well spent? IMHO - No.
Resurrecting this thread.
Anyone got any data on their use.
These ACE platforms seem a complete waste of money and in 10 years I have never seen one.
Would rather the Corps spend this money on fixing the rot in my building!
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They are going to be fixed at Syreston for use at aerospace camps etcâŚ
New toy for the boys club then
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Iâd rather of seen the money spent on actually kitting cadets out in boots, shoes, MTP etc
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And fixing the many broken squadrons.
Our sqn is barely standing. From a H&S view, itâs dangerous.
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Fair point.
Our ceiling is slowly changing to a black colour.
Although I dont mind the idea of investing in RACs but focus more on the core syllabus instead of a QAIC centre.
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i think that is fair but where would you expect to see one?
If i didnât attend RIAT i wouldnât have seen one either, and I suspect the same could be said for everyone else substituting RIAT for RAF Cosford Airshow or other event.
Is the ACE platform intended for the Cadets to use? no
Is the ACE platform intended for internal events? no
i can say exactly the same about the mobile climbing towers.
Both as i understand are only used on âRegional eventsâ - ie a large public event and typically coordinated on a Region level. So not event a Wingâs family day.
so it isnât money spent for the Cadets it is money spent on recruitment and public engagement. now you could argue is it value for money in that respectâŚ?
on that topic i am not sure i have a solid opinion.
as much as i will criticize it being a large trailer with some screens running a very basic flight sim, what else would we want in a recruitment trailer??
if there was a ACC ACE Platform, what would it include?
compared to other Stands it does better than most. the RAFâs generic recruitment stand, is a trailer with a side that opens, some pull up banners and ACFO members with some pamphlets to hand out. the next stage up is either a 1:1 Airfix, or real aircraft to climb inside. then the next one is the Red Arrows.
the VGS to attend RIAT, but they donât open the cockpit, and we certainly donât have an aircraft display team so we have to work on something the kids will want to do, something physical they can try out/play
Edit: given it has been used for 10 years, that is a pretty good return on investment in terms of time used. I donât know what the lifespan was set at, or how long it was given, but this isnât ÂŁ80k spent (or whatever the cost might have been) to blow in one year.
it is also part of the RAFCTE money, which i imagine like any grant needs to be spent on a project rather than simply lost into the wider GPF to fix radiators, or getting ÂŁ120k worth of boots.
Itâs all well and good having things for recruitment, but my experience of âcommunity recruitingâ normally involves speaking to youngsters who are at least 2 years from the joining age.
Anywhere you put it will only have âengagementâ in that place.
I remember the fanfare these things were heralded with and like many Iâve never any of it nor had any cadets or potential cadets saying theyâve seen these things on their family travels. So quite where they have been is a mystery. The value of these has to be gauged by the number of potential cadets who live more than 15 miles from place it was seen.
Iâve seen the RAF recruitment container a few times and it seemed cramped with not enough to keep people on it for more than a minute.
Have used both the ACE platform and marquees etc.
ACE platform could have been something special, but the way I see it was that the full operation, required support and maintenance was never thought through and costed. At a three day event, another member of staff and myself spent two days trying to get as much of it working as possible. We probably got to 90% functionality which we were very pleased with. The RAF Officer i/c of the RAF stand next door was not aware of its existence and was very impressed once we had it going, but then there were people who criticised us for making the effort and getting it working!
Marquees work well - used one last summer for a one day event, less than an hour to fully rig etc, needed a little extra decoration etc and a few bits of gear from the Squadron, but easy to use and drew the crowds and attention.
You can make a rod for your own back if you make things go too well and it raises the expectations elsewhere along the lines of "so and so did it, why not you!. Although there could be all sorts of reasons why and why not. The old showbiz maxim keep them wanting is a sage piece of advice.
Something like the container and marquee needs to be âput up and goâ, make it too much faff and people wonât bother.
Value for money?, RAFAC have a far better allotment of funding than SCC, both RAFAC & ACF receive around ÂŁ500 per head of cadet from the MOD, and for what you get, its well invested and spread out, us in the SCC, recieve arpund ÂŁ1000 per head of cadet, and trust me when i tell you, we see very little of it at grassroots level, the royal marines cadets who are forever told âyouâre part of the SCC familyâ receive virtually zero by way of funding
an interesting set of numbers thereâŚi presume you added an extra â0â to make it ÂŁ1000?
I cannot comment on the SCC, but i recall being in a conversation some 5 years go now about a review on what the ATC does versus the ACF given the cost per head was so different and the outcome didnât match the spend.
Forgive the rough numbers but it was something like ÂŁ20/head in the Cadets and ÂŁ50/head for the ACF.
there were conversations about how does the ATC provide such value for money versus the ACFâŚ
i donât disagree that the SCC is our poorer cousin, but as i understood it the investment in the RAFAC and ACF is not equal