Upper Age Limit for Uniformed CFAV

As impressive as that list is…

…other than basic classroom work, these activities all take place in civilian dress…ie no uniform required.

I’m not trying to be awkward but if these are your passions and skill base and conducted in civilians throughout I’m not quite sure where your drive to wear uniform comes from…

Cynically the only benefit is being able to claim VA while taking part in these activities :confused:

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I think his point is that he’s fit enough to do those activities but it’s apparently too old and decrepit to wear the uniform. He didn’t say that was all he did. And should we kick all AT specialists out of uniform as the things they do are done mainly in civvies?
I would also say that VA is not the only benefit. What about being a full member of a uniformed organisation.

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I’d agree with @Farmerdan

Although I am also of the unpopular opinion of maybe binning off VA altogether. It is divisive (the opinion and VA!).

Different staff on different rates - some on higher rates doing less than those on lower rates… CI’s not eligible… Some activities but not others eligible… In my experience it causes chaos and irritation.

The majority of staff would likely do the majority of their activities still anyway.

Staff shouldn’t be out of pocket so lets look at other ways - maybe a higher annual uniform allowance, expand expenses to cover fuel and food/drink…

I’ve been the recipient of VA, and it is very nice to have the payment, but I think on the whole it likely causes more problems than it solves.

Indeed that is unpopular.

VA means I cover my costs for what I do. I dont make any money. But dont lose any either.

If VA went, there is no way on this earth im driving 2 hours to a pointless training event, wing training day, or meeting. I would give up my more advanced RAFAC quals that take days each year to maintain and I certainly wouldn’t go to pathetic things like a day to ‘learn blue radio’ and get signed off to teach cadets not to lick an aerial.

Oh and I can see the whole wing training team collapsing. As no one is going to drive to a random Sqn to deliver nco training etc without VA.

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Then CIs should go into uniform if the rules permit.
I have told @Katesdad what he should do. Most Gp Capts will be receptive.
At least as a minimum he will have a final answer.

As for the rest of the CIs. We are a uniformed organisation. Get with the program and get into uniform.

Maybe I’m alone, but there certainly is an element of pride in why i want to go into Uniform, I even said that in my Wing Filter interview as I was ‘dedicating’ it to my father who had recently passed away. He had his stint in the forces in his heyday and he’s also why I got into Aviating.

And before the mob says “why didn’t you join the RAF then?” - Health

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A lot of what you mention here wouldn’t be eligible for VA anyway… But I hear you, I like to receive my VA, I just think it is a divisive mechanism.

What we are seeing here though is a staff member willing to go into uniform being told that they can’t… So it would therefor not be unreasonable for them to find this irksome.

But its by the by - I know it is an unpopular opinion, and it isn’t in my power to change anyway… It’s just if it went I wouldn’t be upset.

For me it’s more about feeling part of a uniformed organisation, rather than a civilian auxiliary.

Most if what we do isn’t OAA but is in the Squadron, so for me, the greater part of what I’d do wouldn’t obviate civilian dress unless I was a CI.

The money is peanuts, and a daft reason to change.

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Paracetamol … what exactly have you told me? I don’t recall anything.

@Katesdad

See Above

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It’s amazing how quickly we can devolve any thread into that general idea.

I think as part of the strategic review they should consider replacing it. I know we are not employees but instead of VA and having to do self assessments if they could agree a daily rate with HMRC to cover subsistence and paid the full 45p fuel allowance for personal car use most would likely end up better off and have a reduced personal admin burden?

I think the uniform upper age limit comes from being aligned with the parent service and the advice given to @Katesdad to get a definitive answer from his RC is probably the best we can hope for.

Maybe it is again something that could be fed in to the SR?

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That’s ACC.

But seriously.

I have been giving this some serious thought this morning.

I suggest we now need a halfway house between CI and uniform. Something along the lines of a ‘Senior CI’ or similar, the names not really important atm.

This SCI role would provide development if so wished for CIs.
They would be provided with (and expected to wear) a more substantial uniform. Hardy PPE type black walking trousers and a MUCH better CI polo shirt. A waterproof coat should also be provided.
This would be recognition for completion of certain training such as all mandatory training, completion of probation, and a BASIC matrix of other things… such as they have a RAFAC recongised skill / qual they deliver to cadets eg Air rifle, lowland leader sport etc etc.

This SCI would not attract VA. But would provide better recognition and advancement for those who wish it.

Being a SCI would not be mandatory prior to uniform. But would be recognised as a major achievement.

No age limit for SCI, as long as the matrix is maintained.

Thoughts?

This is not intended to morph via discussion in to a Cpl or SAC role.
This is a senior CIVVIE role on Sqn.

Or just let CIs wear a uniform (if they want to, that is…)

Nope.
Just nope.

There is no admin burden. A simple form… if that’s too much for some, I dont know what to say. Besides volunteer portal is going to make all that very easy.

Why should a CI who comes in once a month and runs an activity for a day get the same reward as the Sqn Cdr who busts their balls / lady balls all the time. The fact that there is higher VA for higher rank is needed to offset this.

Anyone arguing against I would suggest has never run a Sqn!

I dont do it for the VA. But without it I certainly wouldnt bother as I would be massively out of pocket.
Face facts this isnt a hobby. No one signs up to running a Sqn thinking it’s a ‘hobby’. Its a calling or service for something bigger than ones self.

They would need to then conform to all the regs and if they dont face the appropriate administrative actions.

You cant have your cake without paying for it first.
Want to wear the uniform. Go into uniform.

Can you all just please not derail every thread?

There is literally a thread on the strategic review, and several on VA and CIs in uniform.

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Why should a Sqn Ldr who attends an event as the “Director” of the activity get a higher level of VA, while a Flt Lt or Fg Off has actually done all the organisation and admin gets a lower level? :wink:

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ox2ln

Every time.

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I’m genuinely interested what you spend money on that VA covers. When I’ve been a CI, I’ve never been out of pocket after claiming 1771s, and T&S are provided :man_shrugging: