[quote]Gullon wrote:
Ok just came back from RAF Cranwell annual camp[/quote]
Interesting - in what capacity did you attend? Were you permitted to attend as an unofficial SI (in other words, was a blind eye turned to P Letter 02-13), or did you revert to Cdt Sgt as previously discussed?
Point your staff in the direction of P Letter 02-13 (on Sharepoint), and the latest version of PI601 (attached to P Letter 08-12, also on Sharepoint).
However, as tango_lima has correctly advised, your options on reaching age 20 are:
If Officer Cadet - applying for CI or SNCO(ATC) service (however, although regulations do not prevent SNCO service on paper, this may not be seen as being appropriate for an Officer Cadet). ACAI222 refers for CI, ACAI223 refers for SNCO (both in ACP20B).
If commissioned within the OTC (TA List B?) - CI or SI (PI601 refers) is now an option for you, as is VR(T) service (ACAI221, ACP20B).
We had a cadet join the URNR. Until the P Letter came out, I refused to see him as a Commissioned Officer. He insisted he was to be saluted as an Officer. I politely (as a CI) asked him to provide evidence he is commissioned.
P Letter came out. I politely (as a CI) showed him. We now treat him as a CI, although he cannot order an NCO to do something as he is 19.
[quote=“FS Sarnie” post=5672]We had a cadet join the URNR. Until the P Letter came out, I refused to see him as a Commissioned Officer. He insisted he was to be saluted as an Officer. I politely (as a CI) asked him to provide evidence he is commissioned.
P Letter came out. I politely (as a CI) showed him. We now treat him as a CI, although he cannot order an NCO to do something as he is 19.[/quote]
But he should be getting treated as a Staff Cadet…
Did he just start rocking up dressed in a sailor suit once he joined the URNU? Was any sort of paperwork, etc, done? Is he attending in navy uniform now, being treated as a CI and actually a Staff Cadet on paper? I’m confused.
What about the bloke mentioned earlier? CI but attending in uniform and being treated as his reservist self while not telling his reserve unit?
Whatever the “flavour” of outside ATC life… is it that hard to grasp that if you are appointed a CI, you act as a CI, if you are appointed as uniformed staff, you act as uniformed staff, if you are a cadet then you bloody well act as a cadet.
This multi hatting rubbish GMG and is patently wrong!
Sorry, I seem to be posting far too much lately, but this thought occurred to me while I was shaving this morning:
How many supposed ‘service instructors’ are there out there who have never actually undergone any real appointment? ie: they’re individuals who are in the armed forces and turn up at the ATC squadron occasionally to help out, but aren’t technically on the books as ‘staff’.
It’s pretty obvious that the whole point of having a process for appointing service instructors is to avoid the above, but I’ve got a hunch it’s happening all over the place. A couple of the posts on this thread seem to be from people who claim to have met (or be) ‘service instructors’ who, according to the rules (and if following the appointment process properly), can’t be.
Quite possibly a few as the new process has only recently been established.
Before it was a letter from your OC to the OC Wing saying this is the conditions of your attendance and they are happy for them to assist. This then went in to a file at wing with a CRB and that was it. It was official but as far as I am aware it stayed at wing level.
The new system is more defined, I feel still needs refining. It leads to recording on Bader and I believe HQAC receive the documentation.
The difficulty for some is the irregularity in which they attend and the frequency in which they move around. Plus the process is bias to the RAF, understandably, but t makes it a bit more drawn out to complete for the RN and Army. Not at the fault of the ACO but due to the position of a SI being in RAF APs, ACPs, ACTAIs and GAIs and not JSPs or DINs.
oh yes it is a pain! Iam on bader but only had the letter from my first OC which was a number of years ago. I do check with my OC everytime I move but have no idea where I stand on legal or insurance point of view as about 95% is done on leave. The Army has no (to my knowledge) equiv of the RAF/ACO APs/ACPs/ACTAIs or GAIs and trust me have looked into it
As for the OC I am on my 10th in 2 years. How many of them knew I worked with the ACO? I would take a stab at less than 50% it was the 3rd one that wrote the letter and since then its say in my file.