Following the announcement (see link below) i thought it would be worth starting a thread as it could spark some discussion!
BBC News - Keir Starmer to announce plans for digital ID scheme - BBC News
I love the way they announce that in a couple of days he is going to announceā¦
The way they are going they will be trailing the trails to the announcements
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Well, trailers are called trailers because they used to be at the end.
Now, theyāre at the start.
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Given any governmentās history over IT projects, this as a taxpayer fills me with dread, remember how Blairā's IT overhaul of NHS computing went, failed and cost billions, same as the Post Office IT Horizon system.
Questions that need to be answered:
Who has access?
Why do they need access?
What level of individual has access?
What security will be in place given the ransom wear attacks, JLR being the latest?
Not everyone has a āsmartā phone, what about those who are digitally excluded or are in coercive relationships?
What happens if someone refuses one, will they commit a criminal offence or be denied essential services?
Will it produceable on ādemandā by the police randomly as in other regimes as āpapersā please,
This has to go through Parliament and the civil liberties lobby will end up taking this to the Supreme Court.
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Itās just an ID you use online, to prove you are who you say you are, and are the age you are.
I donāt see it being fundamentally different from an IRL ID.
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My opinion of this, towards people who disagree is largely the same as whst id say to the crowds who refuse to get a Clubcard/Nectar Card.
HMG (and most MNCs) already know much more about you than you think, so it doesnt really matter if you dont have oneā¦ so you might as well get one.
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This.
Also most countries have national ID thats required to be carried at all timesā¦this is just a digital version.
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If I can prove Iām over 18, in those many occasions that Challenge 25 results in me being asked for ID, with my phone im 100% for this rather than needing to carry my Driving Licence / Passport / MOD90 with me ā¦ Iām all for it !
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Likewise, Iām all for it.
Thereās so much nonsense coming from various sides around security, who has access, blah blah. Itās all irrelevant, really. All my passport and driving licence details are already fully digital and online. The only change here is Iāll have a way of proving my age without carrying my wallet. Perfect!
Itās just another way of showing ID. It used to be papers with stuck on photos and a signature. We moved on to printed plastic with security checks. Digital is just the next step. I can already scan my passport digitally to gain access to European countries. And can scan the RFID chip with my phone to check ID for DBSā¦
And letās not forget how we all happily put our name, address and card details into dozens of websites regularly. Someone having my photo, name and address is not really a problem.
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As long as they remain voluntary, Iāll gladly have something in my Apple wallet that saves me the bother of carrying a passport or driving licence.
Iād worry about them being used to link our online activities to our real identities, if we didnāt live in a country when they think they need to knock on your door, ask questions, examine your television, etc, to know if youāve been watching live broadcasts.
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Yep, I do certainly agree with both those points. At least for now, it needs to be an optional thing on top of what we already have, not a replacement.
And agreed, this needs to avoid leading to more places and more things requiring ID at all. It would be easy to slip into a world where you need to add your ID to YouTube, Iplayer etc to prove who you are. That is something Iām against.
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Not read into it, but Iām assuming itās a follow on from the online safety act stuff.
Is there a method of age verification included which doesnāt require the transmission of the ID data for online ahem services?
Blair started this idea off when he was in office.
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Then why do you need an id card if you have a driving licence or passport?
You may certainly put all your details into various websites, I certainly donāt and usually into most I put false details and a spam email address, amd a phone number of the local authority.
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I donāt need digital ID. But when I go out, it would be nice to not need to carry a physical ID with me, and just be able to use my phone.
Do you never use eBay? Amazon? Tesco delivery?
I have to give them pretty much the same information thatās already on my ID docs. Arguably more as they also get my credit card details too!
From the telegraph
Sir Keir is expected to announce his backing for a āBrit cardā to verify peopleās right to live and work in the UK as part of efforts to combat illegal migrantsworking in the black economy.
Anyone seeking to start a new job would be required to provide their digital ID, which would be automatically checked against a central database of those legally entitled to work in the UK.
The logic here is that this would be a deterrent to illegals immigration as they would be unable to work upon arrivalā¦ the article goes on to say
Robert Jenrick, the shadow justice secretary, also said digital IDs would not āstop the boatsā, adding: āMost employers who are employing individuals illegally are doing so knowingly. They are doing so dishonestly.ā
Currently, employers are expected to check identity through one of 15 documents, many of which can be easily forged.
So who hasnāt provided ID to their current employer to prove right to work? ( I know it happens, itās a challenge we face with nearly every acquisition we make as theyāve never had a dedicated HR team)
I think Mr Jendrick has a point, itās prevalent in the gig economy, where Iām a delivery driver signed of and approved but I get my illegal mate to do the work and take a cut myself. This scheme wouldnāt stop that.
My views are that thereās nothing to speak against an ID, even a mandatory one, given Iāve lived elsewhere where it was mandatory to both have and carry ID at all times. It became very convenient to have, as you could manage much of your public admin (taxes, banks, medical appointments) very simply and prove you had the legal right to be doing/asking those things.
Admittedly, Peru wanted ID much more frequently than weāre used to in the UK given their historic (and current) issues with insecurity. Almost any interaction either necessitated or mandated use of your ID number (DNI, in local parlance) as a minimum. However if you used your DNI whilst doing your supermarket shopping you could claim much of the tax back at the end of the tax year. No different to the info Amazon collects on people, but being able to use it almost as a loyalty scheme.
The only point I can think of that might be an argument against the rollout of IDs is the cost. Itās a government project, so itāll likely cost at least 3x as much as theyāll initially claim and take twice as long to implement.
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For me, the fact I have a hospital ID, and NHS number, a driving licence number, an NI number, a passport number and extra stuff beyond that, the idea of condensing it into one secure account is incredibly appealing and will hopefully realise savings for the state (if the price tag isnāt set so high as to hoover all of that up for shareholders).
Changing my driving licence or passport isnāt as slick as it could be even though there is currently a link in the system to reuse things like photos.
Iām not a fan of a U.S. business getting the job and Iām a bit twitchy about how fast the government is dealing with certain things that may seem to be a priority for the US administration, rather than our own people.
But, I think a national ID card held on my phone would be really good in principle.
my issue with the scheme is it is being set up to:
The prime minister believes it would help crack down on illegal working and modernise the state, according to senior figures in governmentā¦
ā¦in recent weeks ministers have spoken with increasing enthusiasm about the idea, as they have come under increasing pressure to tackle illegal migration.
my boldā¦
exceptā¦
Kemi Badenoch said that digital ID was ānot really going to solve the problemā of illegal working in the UK.
Reform UK has denounced the plan as a ācynical ploy to fool voters that something is being done about illegal immigrationā.
"Itās laughable that those already breaking immigration law will suddenly comply, or that digital IDs will have any impact on illegal work," the party added.
again my bold.
while all the comments about highlight positives for ācarryingā it digitally (personally i am on the fence, i cannot recall the last time i had to prove my age, and the last time i had to prove my identity was attending a speed awareness course 6 years ago
i feel the scheme is foolish if only given the PM is suggesting a driving reason for the ID is to tackle illegal work and to put off illegal immigration.
people who break the law regularly/daily as a way to survive/live their life are not going to change their ways simply because they/their employees now need an ID.
As they do now, people will find ways around the scheme to make it work for them, or simply find ways to create fake/fraudulent IDs in some format
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Anyone who has applied for a DBS or the Scottish equivalent will have to have provided proof of ID and Proof of address. Having an ID card could linked to a DBS. I could make life easier for people with multiple DBSs