The demise of the F3822

I think you may have missed the point on why this is happening. It isn’t so much to save money, it’s part of the wider RAF ASTRA program. It’s the RAF that will be making the app, not us.

Where the mention of saving money has been made is about not printing any more books between now and when the app is ready as it would be a waste of money to do a full print run when soon they won’t be required. Cadets also aren’t losing out on physical ways of remembering what they’ve done. We still give out certificates for most things. Or badges for the brassard.

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The book is a concise record. Many of my certificates etc for all things have got lost through the years, but the book remains.
With an app, say the cadet leaves and either deletes or the app registers they left and becomes inaccessible or as so many things computerwise the tech becomes superseded. If cadet and staff come to that can look at their records when they’ve left, 5,10,15+ years down the line with no faff, fine, but I can’t see that being the case.

I personally don’t care about the RAF and it’s ministrations, for us as an organisation IMO it’s losing it’s relevance and just sees us as a supplier of ‘bodies in bulk’ for events.


They have been banging on about removing the 3822 book for years, I’ll believe it when I see it :man_shrugging:t2:

In the past, I heard of a ID card, such as MOD90, a sheet of paper, like the orange A4 thing Staff got the other year.

When discussed the problems came out; how does an Activity OC confirm compliance :man_shrugging:t2:
Does Cadet have permission to fly or have they completed the relevant training to allow them fire a weapon. Can you quickly seen in a 3822 :man_shrugging:t2:

Everything is recorded in SMS . . .

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Yes but will every location where an activity takes place have access to SMS :man_shrugging:t2:

For example, does every member of an AEF have access to all cadet SMS records to check consent to fly.

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True, but if some big cheese wanted to validate some of the cadets details or something, it would be easier to show a 3822 than wait for him to get a computer and search the database.

Also in the future a cadets SMS record will be deleted so a cadet won’t be able to look back on it in the future.


I don’t like losing the 3822 for sentimental reasons, but it’s so easy for a cadet to fake a WHT it flying consent in it. At least with relying on SMS there is a bit more trust in the data.


That’s a fair point, but just for the sake of arguing here’s another point.

If you didn’t have consent to fly you wouldent get the the air field to be checked because your OC wouldent let you sign up, this is the same for camps with shooting.

The replacement is a Mobile App that will store the details on the cadets device so no need for an internet connection.

What other organisation has a record of service such as the 3822

Other organisations ive been in weren’t so up tight with health and safety. For example, in the scouts they said, who wants to go air pistol shooting today, and I went in the loft and just did it with no wht or anything. So no need for a record.


Cadets will probably have to open the 3822 app and show it at things like flying and shooting to prove they have the right permissions and/or qualifications. If a cadet doesn’t have a smartphone I believe that OCs will have to print proof from SMS and send it with the cadet.

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I get fed up of this argument.

Eligibility should be checked in the planning phase. You don’t need access at the location the activity takes place if you’ve already confirmed eligibility the night before.

If not, this should be fixed. Or we could educate and trust our ~squadron~ unit staff.

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Exactly it’s not like people just turn upto a shoot with no idea of who is going to be taking part until they arrive.

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I think people just need to get with the times and embrace technology, instead of putting barriers up help find solutions


This right here. We shouldn’t be relying what’s written in the book anyway. The real consent is on SMS…

Who knows, we might even manage to completely get rid of signature blocks.

But that’s probably too hopeful.

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Sending an email from an assigned account, as an electronic signature… Would never work! :roll_eyes:


I know there are Pro’s and Con’s for 3822 but I like them although I have been round for a few years to be honest and although people are correct it’s not ID in the true sense of the word but it is still ID of sorts, so at a Regional Sports day they can be checked. I’m wondering how easy it would be able to check an electronic ID at a training area, without WiFi connectivity. And although they can have their Cadet plastic cards, if these come in - these would be more easily lost or forgotten than 3822’s?
Plus I always advise mine to take their 3822’s duly completed to job interviews so they can impress or use this as an icebreaker and a means of getting employment - but that would I assume go out the window.
It is a ball ache completing 3822’s but to my mind - if it aint broke - don’t fix it?


I would like to think all cadets should have the plastic card as its seems a bit discriminatory to the cadets who dont have a smart phone. We boast about how we try to keep costs down for cadets, but we should think about the ones who are poorer and dont have a smart phone. Because they are scrimping for food, (it happens food banks have gone mad) could turn us into the cadet force for rich kids, when I thought it was trying to help with equality & diversity.
No offence to anyone.

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The trouble being that it is broken.

Everything you say prior I agree with but, and it is a big but…

…when was the last time you saw a F3822 you were impressed by? One you could be proud of if it were yours?

The Cadets don’t use them for the purpose they’re intended and in reality it’s just a logbook to record shooting and flying.

As SAAI I use the time in WHTs to flick through 3822s during the reassembly. Very few have multiple entries on any single page.
One camp
One flight
One promotion (if at all)

The record of service doesn’t have the same appeal as it once did, there isn’t the same opportunities to fill the book and so is often empty even for the exceptional Cadet who is busy on every opportunity and so has lost its purpose and thus meaning.

There was once a time when a 3822 was the passport to attend activities…this was replaced by consent forms and almost overnight F3822s were forgotten about