I requested some clarification on this and it went up through my WExO to TG2 for further information. The response was that IAW ACP 5 and ACP 4, cadets and staff are requried to submit consent forms all official activities undertaken off Sqn. Whilst there is not an official policy document on this, that is the ‘golden rule’.
So, based on that, if you run a range at another location, we should be getting consent forms…
Don’t shoot the messenger - if you will pardon the pun.
<<<< The response was that IAW ACP 5 and ACP 4, cadets and staff are requried to submit consent forms all official activities undertaken off Sqn. >>>>
Can’t find anything after a quick look in ACP5 (Health, Safety & Environment Manual, Rev 1.23) or ACP 4 (Safeguarding & Protecting Children Rev 1.05).
[sub](Using Safari, tried to download latest versions to do a text search, but got a “not a supported file type or because the file has been damaged” error message when trying to open them, very strange.)
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With regard to “residential or off-site actives,” ACP 5 states;
Very different from TG21 + Health proformae every time…
When you submit a PiPE on SMS it allows you to print off (partially) completed consent forms for the cadets on the nominal role for the activity. However, the forms it generates are the old two page ones and the button is hard to find. It also doesn’t work on activities you are invited to by other Squadron’s/ Wing. The system is there though, so I imagine it would be relatively easy to implement. At the moment I have a member of staff copying cadets details onto blank consent forms which are saved on our network to print off when needed, but this is incredibly time consuming. I am a teacher, and we don’t have to do this when we go on trips. Ridiculous!
It’s a nominal ROLL.
1/10. See me.
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=19029]Why, or why, in this digital age, do we need the repetitive completion of such forms? It’s archaic, often irrelevant & a huge admin burden. Drag the ACO into the 21st Century - please! :mad:
Standard consent form from parents/carers/guardians, - “I authorise little Johnnie/Josephine to attend all ATC activities; I understand that it is my sole responsibility to advise you if there are any activities that I wish to be excluded.”
Medical form, complete once - “Here are the full medical details for little Johnnie/Josephine; I understand that it is my sole responsibility to advise you if there are any changes in medical conditions or details.”
E-copies of forms to be available/accessible for the relevant activity (complete - once - a suitable Data Protection caveat if needed).
Problem solved. B)[/quote]
We already have that in the form of F3822 and also 3822 record of service.Both have parental signature of consent to take part in activities and yet we are constantly told to get tg21s and 23s signed by parents, to my mind they are just unnecessary red tape and not needed. But I,m sure I’ll get told to wind my neck in about it.
[quote=“GOM” post=19854]It’s a nominal ROLL.
1/10. See me.
;)[/quote]
On the PiPE you have created If you click on ‘reports’, then TG form 21 it will generate the (old) forms for you, although this only works for an activity you have created as far as I know!
There seems to be a lot of duplicate form filling with regards to the TG21 &23. Would it not be practicable to fill out said form, say at the beginning of the year detailing any injuries, medication, medical history etc. Then when required for camps or various activities, squadrons can print off the form with an add on asking if there are any changes to medical history/injuries; if not sign the form and if so, detail what has changed.
Obviously any significant injury/illness should be bought to the attention of staff etc at the earliest opportunity.
Is this too easy? :unsure:
Basically exactly what is done now, except it comes with a load of bumpf which the parent doesn’t necessarily read and just signs it away - not taking off an old knee complaint or hearing issue which then prevents the kid from going flying but it was 9 months ago and cleared up. At least this way, they are forced to consciously think what should be on there. As a Camp Com i’ve seen some appalling forms which look like they’ve been completed by a gorilla wielding a crayon.
The only “pre-filled” bits should be the personal data (name, dob, rank, address, classification, sqn and wing. The rest isn’t hard to do really is it (and we aren’t the ones filling it in!!).
I agree. However this would be vaguely sensible, and easier. therefore, we cant possibly entertain it!
Forms for every activity seems pointless, how many times have we been handed 2 or 3 forms, filled out in duplicate, by the same “usual suspects” ? Most of our cadets have electronic copies saved, they print off and sign/date as appropriate with no amendments.
If no annually, as suggested, then quarterly or monthly?
It has recently been mooted, in my area, that we should have fresh TG Forms for all events where there is a chance of needing to take a cadet to hospital, when off unit.
However I would argue that the TG forms, contain, more accurate, up to date information than the Sqn held 3822A. So maybe by this theory, which does hold some logical thinking, we would be needing TG Forms for any activity …
Just how much does the medical information on a TG form help when getting a cadet to medical assistance as opposed, say, to an ambulance picking a random person off a pavement?
If it became mandatory for cadets to carry ID with their NHS number (or local equivalent), does that provide immediate, accurate information for the professionals? (staff could have a list of these numbers just in case)
It provides them with as much information as possible, such as current medication or allergies, without finding out via a reaction.
However, ALARP needs to be considered, and the practical element seems to becoming less prominent
It provides then with mainly incorrect and incomplete information.
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What do the ACF/SCC do?
For flip’s sake so it might take an FOI to find out something as basic this.
It shows up HQAC for being the shambles they are, it seems like the real life example of one of my favourite radio shows … Sorry, I Haven’t A Clue, but without the humour.
Until they come back with the response “Information not held”. 
I wondered when he would get round to doing that!
Update on the FOI. No such document!
I raised this recently and the answer I recieved was
“the clue is in the title - consent forms. can we prove the parents have given consent to attend an activity without a TG form in place?”
So although there is nothing in black and White in policy or otherwise, it would seem if we wish to ensure we have consent to attend we should be using them 100% of the time.
(if this holds true, then I argue for a A5 consent form which holds Cadet name, Sqn, the event title, location, date and timings. NOK contact number(s) and signature.
realistically do we need more than this for consent? do we need email and postal address (at least one should be in the F3822; as is DOB, Wing).
Do we really need NHS number? Drs Name and address?
if this TG form “lite” then has a box for “medical conditions to declare y/n option” then the full forms are completed…