I believed that DBS was transferrable - PVG in Scotland certainly is, as we clear people for work in teh organisation as they become staff cadets and that description doesn’t change as they move to staff non-cadet.
The required elements of AVIP are different depending on what sort of staff you are, but safeguarding is common for all types so a sensible HQ would place too many obstacles in the way of a staff cadet moving to CI. As has been said, there is no required probation period in that situation, though HQAC/SMS may list them as probationary until they get their admin straight.
Nope, we absolutely can be and must be choosers, but our systems need to be fast enough to allow us to get through the filters faster and more efficiently. We cannot be elitist, but we also cannot just let anybody join if they are genuinely unsuitable to the role.
If people were being paid for their efforts then yes you need to be choosy, we’ve interviewed and put up to 10 people through the process for one job, exhausting few days they were as very little else got done and we had to make the hours up.
But in an organisation solely reliant on people being prepared to give up their free time and in a world as reported where less people are volunteering across all sectors, as long as they tick the boxes then fine. Start getting too choosy / fickle and the following process will begin staff will carry on but soon get fed up and go probably with simultaneous loss of cadets and pretty soon squadrons will fold due to not enough cadets or staff. For the respective HQs to allow this to happen at a time when it seems that organised youth groups are needed for all manner of reasons is gross dereliction and those in paid positions sacked. It is unforgiveable in my opinion.
We’ve got 5 staff and getting at least 2 at the squadron some nights is a struggle.
I’ve been told about a squadron that has been closing on an ad hoc basis due to lack of staff and where their numbers had built are now losing cadets and another where the OC leaves Reg CWC to run the squadron if no other staff are available, which I didn’t think was why Reg CWC was invented. BUT in a world where volunteering is a dirty word and those we have are stretched, there are not too many options.
Have you ever considered that the reason you don’t get staff is because of you? It might be nothing to do with WHQ, RHQ or HQAC but your self defeating negative attitude is putting people off.
I don’t know where you are but I don’t have the same problems as you, and the admin processes should be the same. I’m having to beat people away from trying to join my staff team.
Not just me, across our sector the squadrons are not getting any interest and across the Wing things aren’t like people want. When the WSO interviewed my new lady a few weeks ago, he told her she was only the 5th he’d interviewed this year and 2 of them had already given up on the process. I’ve spoken to the people I know in Scouts and ACF and everyone is not getting people showing any interest to be “adult helpers”. The local ACF has the Det Cdr and a PI, but their job is changing and he’s leaving. He’s told his CoC and basically what do you want us to do was the reply. He’s told me if it wasn’t for the fact he’d been a cadet he’d have binned it ages ago as it’s not worth it, but his wife is expecting their 3rd child and he said he may well have to. The Scout chap said they have 3 groups on the verge of closing due to lack of staff, but they as a district have 500 waiting to join.
When people like this lady come along they are told what they have to do warts ‘n’ all, before they can get stuck in and for the majority having to wait 6+ months and tick a load of boxes before they can get into it, seems is too long. This lady was amazed we don’t do online DBS (her employer does them online), or purely electronic applications, I explained that the MoD likes bits of paper as keeps people in jobs and is inconvenient. There is little point in trying to pretty things up IMO, as it could bite you, if they say, I wasn’t told that and you have to explain yourself.
We’ve got 5 of us and it’s been like that for around 4 years and you can see the other 4 (all ex-cadets) all much younger already looking jaded as their jobs and or family commitments increase.
All I’ve ever done do is tell them what they have to as a list of things, nothing cantankerous. It’s just the list and time line gets longer and people want to start helping sooner.
Going to Wing to do the BPSS. There are a load of us all being told we need to do it and we’ve said come to us when we’re doing ATC work and not us go to them by taking time off our paid job.
So, our WExO went on a tour to help get existing staff through BPSS. So that’s an individual issue not a process issue.
No BPSS = No MOD90, no SC = longer admissions to stations and no improvement to shooting. And it’s not our diktat.
We have monthly intake nights for new staff at varying locations around the wing to ease the travel a little. WSOs and WExO in attendance, all paperwork filled out on the night.
We have only 3 compulsory elements (that spring to mind, someone chime in if I miss anything) - intake, AVIP, and Heartstart (that we run in house). So it’s one evening, one weekend, and then during parade nights.
The process (mandatory elements) isn’t as bad as can be made out when you add a little perspective against what they then open up the opportunity to do of they want and the benefits they can get from it.
An evening - they’ve already signed up to those
A weekend - useful and needed training in a social environment where they can meet a lot of people who could help them with whichever direction they want to go in or will need to speak to/email at some stage (I.e. Networking)
First Aid is an easy sell, especially considering how easy it is to tick off.
Yes the process and the paperwork is a pain, but it can be so much easier than many make it.
@AlexCorbin While I’m the first to comment on paid employees to not support volunteers, I can see that there being expectation to do a day at work and then travel what could be upto 80-90 miles round trip in the evening has little appeal. At times it is bad emough finding the will to go to the squadron after a crappy day at work and that’s nowhere near that far.
The problem is we have rules applied to us which are the same as those who work full-time in a location. Which is like any of us at work when there is something you have to comply with, ie 5/10 minute walk, as long aas it takes t’s done and go back to your job, ie you are given the time and allowed to do it. Not as in our case it is take time from your day job, which invariably means using holiday or maybe taking a couple of hours which you have to make back. Or have an expectation that WHQ staff come to us. Regardless of whether or not this is compulsory it was not thought through as HQAC / MoD staff et al are not like us and don’t see it from the perspective of volunteers.
@Giminion I need a new MOD 90 but I need to do BPSS, the FS on the sqn is in the same position, we still get onto stations, might not be as smooth as it would be with a MOD90 ie we need to be escorted (if we have cadets with us they can escort us) but you get on, so do I need a MOD90 not really. I show my driving license, easy peasy. For those who do shooting then there is greater need to comply, but the vast majority of us that don’t do shooting it’s not an issue.
Wholeheartedly agree. And that’s down to the culture and leadership of the squadron.
We start the transition a bit earlier and see “Staff Cadets” at 18, rather than “Staff Cadets”. That slight change of emphasis sees a great retention of 18+ cadets, coupled with an easier transition into CFAV.
Others totally disagree… and struggle with staff numbers. No correlation of course.
I am surprised there isn’t something written into the contract, wording along the lines of
“the job requires supporting the CFAVs within the Wing, with a minimum 37 hours expectation, some of which need not be spent during usual office hours but at Units”
It is disappointing that Aunty Dawn is willing and able to travel the length and breadth of the country visiting Cadets on duty, which by default occur on the weekends and evenings, when the local WExO can’t travel an hour to a unit within their area.
(there is an argument we wouldn’t lose anything if Dawn kept to 9-5 hours and only at Cranwell but indicates the point @AlexCorbin made at being the right person for the job…)
Even before our Cadets age out to become CFAV they are treated like we would a new CI, Staff Cadets may know how the Sqn works but we still point things out to them, and we still have a laugh with them and make them feel part of the Adult team. If you start off treating them like cadet’s when they age out then who knows how the mindset with be them, constantly second guessing and not piping up when you would expect them to.
She’s getting paid c.£100K pa, I’d expect her and her acolytes/cronies (C.£90k) to get out and about. Also she won’t be doing it at the end of a full day at work. I’d wager when she goes to visit some poor unfortunate souls she doesn’t much beforehand and doesn’t do much the next day, or invents some meetings where she can update SM, whereas the WHQ staff won’t have that luxury and be back in the next day. I also imagine she has a driver.
Driving any distance at night down the majority of British A and B “country” / suburban roads is not a pleasant experience.
why not?
why shouldn’t their contract indicate they should work “37 hours spread across the week to get the work done” - where some of that work is out of office hours to meet face-to-face (of the horror!) those a WExO supports???
If they could work from home or remotely this might be achievable, ie go to squadrons and then work from home or go in later, but as our WHQ have said they can’t work from home, despite 80% of their job being electronic.
We have flexible working allowance built into our salaries but in the 23 years since it was included it hasn’t been forced. If we don’t work the hours we don’t get questioned.
I think you will find that WExOs get a ‘plus factor’ on top of their salary to cover additional hours, evenings and weekends; but doesn’t cover the extra time but that’s what they sign up for.