Staff cadets and the FMT600

Are staff cadets able to get an FMT600 and then drive 9 seaters on their B licence? Never seen it happen and unsure which regs to check so I thought I’d ask here

I’m going to go with no on that one. Although they are not specified that they can’t, ACTO 150 only has reference to CFAVs getting a 600.

12.1. A MOD self-drive vehicle may only be driven by a CFAV who holds an appropriate DVLA licence and suitably annotated F/MT 600. The driver of a MOD self-drive vehicle on an authorised journey is regarded as being on duty.

I had a 600 as a cadet. I was trained at the gliding school to have an airfield licence, and many of the FSCs drove the Land Rovers and the Lamborghini.

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But having seen the damage done to Land rovers by FSC’s, I’d go rather with a no… :kissing_heart:

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Nope.

I think the restriction is with age as you probably need to be 21 to drive one if not regular service personnel.

No age restriction, just got to be a CFAV

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You can drive up to a 9 seater on a standard B licence which is what made me curious

Yep, I think to drive Phoenix vehicles you need to be 21. Something to do with insurance.

What insurance? There isn’t any!

Maybe we are talking about different things here. To drive a vehicle you need insurance. The FMT600 entitles you to book and use service vehicles or, in our case rental vehicles provided by Phoenix hire. These vehicles are insured and, I beleive, you need to be 21 years old to drive them.

What he means is, the MOD doesn’t have insurance. It has an indemnity. The practical effect is the same, but the nature of the financial backing is very different.

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Typically hires would come with a restriction, yes, but yeah considering the self-indemnified nature of MOD hires I’m skeptical of if the provider cares or even needs to.

I’ve not heard of mil drivers having restrictions…

Of course, this is RAFAC, so I’m surprised there’s not a “25 with minimum of 2 years on type” restriction that is an actual thing in some companies.

Personally I’d be up for letting Staff Cadets be FMT’d for people carriers. I wonder if there’s an ROI element, potentially losing them shortly after, but it could also be a pull to keep them on board post 20 as an element of integration.

I wonder whether Army Cadet instructors can get a FM600 at 19?

If so I recon it’s the old difference between staff cdts & CFAVs where over 18s are not being classed as “adults”.

Regarding insurance through Phoenix, this make sense as Phoneix has been used as a subcontractor to provide civilian hire vehicles so we would be bound by the terms of service of the hire company.

There’s no age restriction on the FMT, we regularly give cadets FMTs when they need them, and there wouldn’t be a forces age restriction as they take under 18s in the regulars.

The question is more whether they can use Phoenix* self-drive.

*or whatever it’s called this week.

FMT600 is most useful if it includes minibus and trailer. Too much reliance on oldies with D1 grandfather rights who always seem to end up with driving duties.

You need to be careful with that - mine specifies what types of trailer I can tow (which is frankly another stupid MODism).

And then you can only tow military trailers behind military vehicles, not sqn trailers. But you can use SOVs to tow military trailers :man_facepalming:

Wait, really? Do the MCTs count as military then? Even though they are owned by a charity (technically) as I know of many a phoenix hire used to tow those.

Pass, they’ve been too difficult to move so I’ve never tried. I think so though.

And the condition of them is rubbish. And SW region’s had birds nesting in it that were protected so you couldn’t use it.

Then try and book it, and you need to rely on clarity delivering something a) with a tow bar. B) with an appropriate weight limit to tow one. C) not have it cancelled on the day.

Just impossible.

Edit: phoenix or clarity would be fine - they count as “military” for those purposes.

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This isn’t true. If you look in ACTO150 there is some gubbins about non-publically owned trailers (as the RAF tow non-mil trailers all the time for sports clubs etc).

Edit - it’s in JSP800, not ACTO 150:

  1. Insurance for MOD Vehicles Towing Non- Publicly Funded Trailers. When a MOD vehicle is towing a non-publicly funded trailer6 for official duty purposes, the trailer is covered by the MOD’s normal claims handling arrangements. However, if the trailer is damaged, it is a unit responsibility for the repair of the trailer as it would be for any other non-MOD equipment loaned to the MOD. The trailer must conform to Road Vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 and must display the VRN of the towing vehicle.