Just to clarify slightly - many people think that the Permit 19 gives to leave to drive cadets without a D1 - actually it doesn’t. It gives you leave to charge (for running costs) without having a PCV licence. And you don’t need to charge a “fare” to cadets - it can reasonable be argued that an element of subs goes toward the running of the bus.
Slight nuance… but even if you have sov with D1 drivers it should still be Permit 19’d.
Indeed - the ACO recommended insurers expect you to have it whether or not the drivers are D1.
All true - it has been a while since I looked.
It is still all a bit vague as it seems that much depends on the court’s interpretation. We could do with something more firm I think.
If ATC subs are seen as an indirect payment for using the vehicle I wonder if we could simply state that we will allow anybody to use the vehicle, thereby removing the payment as a consideration. The fact that the vehicle’s insurance only allows ACO personnel to be carried is entirely incidental
Anyone got any top tips for insurance companies to use? We are trying to get it boxed today/tomorrow. KD Insurance has been mentioned by another OC that I know…I know this thread did kind of exist on the old forums but I haven’t been able to find it…
KD insurance all the way. They cover all the necessary indemnities for airfield use, transportation of weapons or ammo and the relevant max cover for injuries (£10M IIRC)
I would like to say thank you to all of those who have contributed to this thread; a brilliant example of ACC providing quick answers to what are (often) very silly questions on my part. The answers have been really useful, particularly with insurance (we ended up with KD) and Permit 19 issues.
We now have a vehicle, the P19 is now processing and everything else is in place. My staff team has even managed to persuede the local Police force to pay for the livery which is brilliant
Just to confirm, as there has been some confusing advice above; I work at a boarding school where this sort of thing is bread and butter.
Permit 19 is NOT required for 9-seater ‘minibuses’, although ACO may recommend it. 9 seats makes it a car. (We have an excellent Peugeot one.)
D1 is NOT required for 9-seater ‘minibuses’. Ditto.
There are DEFINITELY a number of 17-seater minibuses where it is possible to exceed the MAUM of 3.5t if all the seats are filled. The user manual will probably specify a MAUM of 3.5t to meet the Section 19 requirements. That is certainly true of our Renault and Peugeot minibuses.
Annoyingly, our school has allowed its weighbridge to become unusable and deteriorate beyond repair, just when regulatory enforcement would have made it increasingly useful!
T
(PS edited to add: our Peugeot minibuses have very good removable rear seats on QR fittings. We frequently use them like this with 12 passenger seats and proper room for safe stowage of kit e.g. on the way to/from camp.)
No idea why we have one but it’s a boarding school; there’s one in the maintenance yard under a heap of junk. I guess they wanted it to check the weight of trailers? A waste, though, it could have been useful.
