By the throat by the sounds of it.
Just grass them up to your WSO who should then demonstrate that he has a pair and actually order the Sqn Cdr that said girl IS NOT to parade as an ATC cadet. Armed Forces Act 2006, Part 1, Section 12 - Disobedience to Lawful Commands would I believe in that case apply.
Belve it or not I have just been told by the CO that he is the CO and he will decide if she wears uniform its my decision and shes wearing it… :mad:
Seems like he’s a bit of a jellyfish and won’t stand up to SNCO.
I’d definitely grass him up!
And I guess you’ll have CI’s offspring also in uniform now?
[I]NB, Jellyfish is the least offensive word I could think of to put down.[I]
Can you ask for that decision in writing?
Up until the day it actually happens the CO can change their mind, deny everything and make you look a right 'nana claiming that the SNCO was being dealt with separately and delicately and you interfered with insufficient information.
On a side note Zinggy, from what I can pick up you are ex-services - are you are member of the local RBL? It might make an alternative option for getting the info through to the people who need to know.
This is one of the most extraordinary things I have ever read.
Zinggy, you have my absolute sympathy fella. This is outrageous.
There are lots of great advice here but one overriding fact. You must not let this drop mate. If you do, the flood gates will open. The SNCO and OC in question need slinging out on their ear…and the CI for that matter!
Personally I wouldn’t blame you for leaving the Sqn to their own devices on Sunday and going and marching with your Dad. A Sqn with a command structure like that, and we’ve all seen them, are a disgrace to the organisation that so many of us have a great affinity for.
Indeed, for the sake of not just your Sqn, but for every Sqn, don’t let this drop until justice is done.
RS
Quick Side Note - Zinggy
Everyone here is urging you down the shop em/grass em up route. However you know what the situation is on the ground and what you want to achieve with the cadets.
The situation isn’t directly putting lives at risks although it isn’t right and could bring the corps into disrepute. We have enough stresses on staff as it is without people being forced to go along with what’s not right. It may be that you have to bite your lip & go through with the parade and consider whether its worth transferring. The other option is to cause the Sqn to implode staff wise which won’t do anybody any good. I’m assuming that there is no other member of staff you could talk to? Even the padre might be a good shout if he has the COs ear.
What ever you decide, don’t make your decision in anger and think about what the effect will be on the cadets. If you have these issues going on, can do more good elsewhere? I appreciate that will feel like you are being forced out but whatever happens think of the possible consequences and most importantly make sure its your own decision (and not a bunch of random people on a web forum who won’t have to deal with the fall out!).
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=12947]This is one of the most extraordinary things I have ever read.
Zinggy, you have my absolute sympathy fella. This is outrageous.
There are lots of great advice here but one overriding fact. You must not let this drop mate. If you do, the flood gates will open. The SNCO and OC in question need slinging out on their ear…and the CI for that matter!
Personally I wouldn’t blame you for leaving the Sqn to their own devices on Sunday and going and marching with your Dad. A Sqn with a command structure like that, and we’ve all seen them, are a disgrace to the organisation that so many of us have a great affinity for.
Indeed, for the sake of not just your Sqn, but for every Sqn, don’t let this drop until justice is done.
RS[/quote]
Racing Snake
For the record I agree with your sentiment, although I think you might be being a bit harsh on the CI (The SNCO is being allowed to do so, so why not her sprog). However it does seam the organisation has got a few things going ping at the moment with a lot of staff at the grassroots seaming to be very very stressed out (and getting angrier and I suspect that wings are not even aware of what is festering).
Some people may need slinging, but others may need gripping and re-educating. A sqn does not become this maverick overnight and it sounds almost if the CO is being bullied by the SNCO. If we all start walking & throwing toys then the cadets will loose out. What is probably needed is a bit of leadership and people put back into boxes otherwise the Sqn will be poisoned and the cadets will loose out.
Kind Regards
C/Tech
I hear this all the time and it’s often used by some as a way to avoid confronting that which needs confronting. Sometimes, a stand has to be made and if that means cadets have to ‘lose out’ temporarily, then so be it.
Well I will be making my final stand tomorrow night no point in going to the RBL as our point of contact is an ex WO ATC who was booted out for letting underage cadets drive on an airfield then lied about it hr is also mates with said SNCO and was in the Army (I have since found out he didn’t pass basic)
tbh, i wouldn’t bother, its a bit late at that stage, your OC isn’t going to change his mind just because you ask him again.
for me, despite not being one obsessed by rules and the kind of pointless ‘village Napoleanism’ the ACO likes to indulge in, this is a massive, crux red line: if your OC is prepared to bend this rule, then he’s on course to start breaking rules on who can go shooting. so for me its time to completely side-step your CoC and ring WHQ and have a ‘i need to have an interview with the Wing Commander RTFN’ moment.
if Wing chin you off i’d talk to HQAC, and i’d do it today - if it gets you in trouble you probably aught to ask yourself whether you wnt to be involved in the orgnisation anyway.
[quote=“Chief Tech” post=12949]Quick Side Note - Zinggy
Everyone here is urging you down the shop em/grass em up route. However you know what the situation is on the ground and what you want to achieve with the cadets.
The situation isn’t directly putting lives at risks although it isn’t right and could bring the corps into disrepute. We have enough stresses on staff as it is without people being forced to go along with what’s not right. It may be that you have to bite your lip & go through with the parade and consider whether its worth transferring. The other option is to cause the Sqn to implode staff wise which won’t do anybody any good. I’m assuming that there is no other member of staff you could talk to? Even the padre might be a good shout if he has the COs ear.
What ever you decide, don’t make your decision in anger and think about what the effect will be on the cadets. If you have these issues going on, can do more good elsewhere? I appreciate that will feel like you are being forced out but whatever happens think of the possible consequences and most importantly make sure its your own decision (and not a bunch of random people on a web forum who won’t have to deal with the fall out!).[/quote]
I understand where you’re going with this and why CT, but ultimately it is not within the CO’s “gift” to sanction this. These types are the rot in the ACO and need to be cut out before they infect others.
As with any surgery, its painful for those involved at the time, but it’ll heal soon enough and ultimately be worth it in the end.
It’s types like these who get away with it for years, then when they are gripped, complain, tie up the CoC with admin/nause and are the reason why the redress for Officers is being looked at being lowered.
Zinggy - if you do nothing else beforehand, make sure you (or somebody) gets pictures on the day. They always help paint the picture 
“Sir, it’s my belief that what you are authorising/condoning breaks multiple rules and will bring this unit into disrepute. Furthermore you have put me in a difficult position as when it is investigated and I’m asked ‘why didn’t you go up the CoC?’ I will have to answer with a sound conscience. Therefore if you are determined to go ahead I will have no choice but to contact the WSO/WHQ/WgCdr and report the matter for investigation.”
PS taking pictures makes you look like a tool (bad word avoided). You won’t need them. Given the activity in question they’ll be plenty of witnesses…
As it is a Remembrance service, surely the local press will take care of the taking of pictures!
while this is entirely reasonable in terms of this particular issue, isn’t the ‘big picture’ that Zingy has a rogue OC who is just going to continue doing stupid things until a grown-up suggests that he spend more time with his family/career?
the problem being that such a conversation might not occur until after something very, very stupid has happened, which doesn’t help the organisation much.
Zingy has given the OC enough opportunities/excuses to manage the situation, he’s unlikely to back down in the face of a bare faced threat from Zingy at this late stage, so i don’t see that Zingy has much option than to dob him in.
Can I just say, I think Chief Tech’s words are very valid. You make some good points fella and an input of restraint is often required.
However, on this matter I cannot agree with your comments. My assumption is as follows. The OC in this case will not think twice about his actions. He will happily go about similar business in the future in the same manner. He is basically a law unto himself. Someone mentioned “Village Napoleonism”; and I think that hits the nail on the head.
It may sound a little savage but there can be no allowances here. This canker, the sooner it is cut out the better. Would we allow cadets in our Sqns to carry out such offences? No. Of course not!! We lead by the example we set and the abhorrent actions of the few often define the rest of us. I would sack them on the spot and send them to the local Sea Cadets.
As it is a Remembrance service, surely the local press will take care of the taking of pictures![/quote]
Ask the press Phot to take a picture of the Sqn bugler
I have just found out shes using a cornet and not a bugle and that we have a Cadet that canplay the bugle and has one! The SNCO also has 2 sons on the sqn and both are laying reefs I have old the WWO that if its nbot sorted I will be out the door